176 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Dave, Jim and all. Looking at this from the outside. Would it make any sense that all shocks come from a single provider such as SCCA Enterprises who would purchase the shocks, dyno them all and make sure they are all within a given tolerance? If the manufacturer can not be trusted to meet tolerance, how can the competitors be held to a set standard?

 

SMAC seemingly has no interest in changing the shocks as they have worked for years.. It would also require some testing and perhaps new bump stops. 

 

IMO, we are passed these shocks, especially since we have not been able to buy them for two months and they dont appear to be available anytime soon. Not quite sure how this can be good for the class? 

 

IMO, we can switch to a good shock that holds a tight tolerance and quite possibly sealed for 750 a set or so? If the price range falls close to that, IMO we would be silly not to change..  ( by good I don't mean faster, better etc. I mean available, has clearance so we are not slamming stops and damaging parts and tearing apart cars.)   

Set a ride height rule to insure slamming bump stops never happens again. Something similar to what we run now. We dont want more shock travel only to allow tires to bottom out in fender well. 

 

 

new shocks only in Super tour in 19

new and old in majors, regionals in 19

new only in majors and regionals in 20

[chris haldeman]

Smac needs to change their mind. I am currently informing people I can not build new cars and or fix the bad/bent shocks on their car. This is not good. The time is now for a change. I am suspect that bilstien will ever have our shocks again

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Isn't Mr. Cefalo supposed to make SM great again?????  Welcome to the smac Marc lolololol

[Bench Racer]

Why not be have a shock cost of $750/corner for the racer wantabees. How many total shocks are we talking about? Why not look at a similar shock from different manufacture. Which manufacture if any could provide the number of shocks required within one month.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Why not be have a shock cost of $750/corner for the racer wantabees. How many total shocks are we talking about? Why not look at a similar shock from different manufacture. Which manufacture if any could provide the number of shocks required within one month.

what we have for 450 works just fine we have all learned how to drive it, imo just let whoever wants to gain that 1 second a lap for $1200, since I have never seen anyone go 1 second a lap faster then the field! either eveyone is already doing it or is a bogus claim. Im sure the smac never saw this coming when they had very good intentions of fixing a concern...  

 

I dont think its as dire as everyone is making it out to be myself, but it certainly doesnt look rosey either.

[chris haldeman]

For the record I am perfectly fine with the current shock and have no desire or need to change it other than bilstien has given up production for whatever reason and that sucks. Anybody who doesn’t think this is a real problem I can forward the emails and text messages where I am informing customers they can’t race because I don’t have shocks and neither does anybody else. Wheeler went to great lengths to get maybe 8 total front shocks from over seas. That’s it they are gone.

[Dave D.]

If Bilstein is indeed not interested in producing these part number shocks for a while and we now have a shortage where the door is open to price gouging for those that need them, what is really wrong with rebuilt/freshened shocks? Why can't the powers that be (NASA& SCCA)  just get off their butts, come up with acceptable shock dyno specs (like the published specs for cyl heads) and stick to them!!?? It seems the factory specs are useless and Bilstein is not loosing any sleep over our situation, so we have to take care of this matter ourselves. Instead of specing out new shocks that will cost each racer more to keep up to date, just keep the same shock that many are comfortable with, and publish dyno specs for all to comply with. We have a good idea of what the shock values should be from the dyno research by many, so tighten up the range and there we go. What's the big deal? It's cheaper in the long run to the racer to send out and refresh a known good shock isn't it?  Bilstein was ready to send back freshened shocks to Drago and call it good!

[Bench Racer]

From another Dave D., SMAC and CRB, what are you doing for the class with the continuous most entries per event? We the class owners of Spec Miata's are the one's who foot the bill. What's the current status of the SCCA on shocks for Spec Miata. I'm totally against any shocks costing more than todays shock. I'm also totally against anyone being forced to buy new other manufacture shocks to enter Super Tour, Majors or Divisional races.

 

SCCA 250772

David Dewhurst

[BNaumann]

If Bilstein is indeed not interested in producing these part number shocks for a while and we now have a shortage where the door is open to price gouging for those that need them, what is really wrong with rebuilt/freshened shocks?

Nothing is wrong with rebuilding the shocks.

[chris haldeman]

Rebuilding does not fix broken shocks. Shocks on the car that won Sebring Nasa champs were made in 2010 and never touched since. Car is likely the best handeling sm on earth. It has done nothing but win since it’s build with multiple drivers and engines ect. Rebuilding a non broken shock is useless inmo. Building new cars or fixing crash damage is not solved by rebuilding. Short story is bilstien should be kicked in the balls for not having shocks available :-) This is a real and right now problem. I get that most don’t understand the issue since they likely buy maybe 1 set of shocks every few years. I need 24-48 shocks per season for customers and new cars.

[MPR22]

I can’t believe nobody has grabbed on to the real reason. NC will be introduced and Mazda/SCCA has asked Bilstein to help with the transition by not offering the shock. All new builds will have to be NC and that will make the transition faster and permanent.

[Bench Racer]

 Throw the bait ^ and see who'll bite.

[davew]

I won't bite the bait, but I will cut the line.

 

It appears all Bilstein production has stopped, for all sizes and shapes, not just our thin slice of the pie. So even NC cars will run out of shocks soon. The NC package that Mazda sells for SM5 and T3-4 is a custom valved shock. So when Mazda runs out, so does everybody.

 

I have reached out to a BIG race shock company to get a courtisy quote on more or less duplicating the Bilstein. Maybe we will shorten the body and change the bump stop a little. SCCA and SMAC have nothing to do with this. I was talking to this company on another matter, they make things other than shocks and they offered to look into it. If I get any info worth passing on, I will.

 

dave

[Bench Racer]

Dave, I appreciate your effort but will comment. What we have with the FC bump stop works fine. Why not find another shock which will fit with the existing FC bump stop at the same shock cost $90.00/$125.00 whatever has been normal. Then change the rule that either shock may be used.  Other than this ^, there are many scenario's where little Joe Blow will get screwed over the same as when not enough Fat Cat kits, bilstein shocks and ect.  

[Ron Alan]

^^^From a cost perspective...staying in your price range DD means going with a LARGE shock supplier...my guess is chooses are limited.

If DW info is accurate getting ahead of the game now seems prudent. We are being hamstrung here by the market...nothing else. Many now are already screwed because they cant get a replacement for their SD1 or SD2 shocks(legal for years)or the well documented Fat Cat super shocks that are dyno legal but make you 1 second faster

Point is, I think the class is going to have to take a small financial hit in order to move forward(really no choice). We grandfather Bilsteins for a short period and move on. To fix the problem for the cost of a set of tires seems reasonable to me! Lets turn the page!!

[J. Pressman]

I think it would be silly not to move to an improved shock given the opportunity to make change.  A moderate expense for a superior product just makes sense.  My primary concern would be lifespan and durability.  I would expect the new shocks to last at least as long as the current Bilstein.  I'd also expect a generous adoption period, similar to what was outlined a few posts back, though i'm sure most will jump ship ASAP.  I'm running with one of the the smallest budgets around and am open to a change.

 

I'd be very curious to know what Emilio at Supermiata, or somebody who really knows the miata platform AND good dampers would recommend for a non-adjustable, budget friendly, spec damper that solved some of the known issues with the current unit, and can hold much tighter tolerances.  His adjustable XIDA units are AMAZING!

[MPR22]

I won't bite the bait, but I will cut the line.

 

It appears all Bilstein production has stopped, for all sizes and shapes, not just our thin slice of the pie. So even NC cars will run out of shocks soon. The NC package that Mazda sells for SM5 and T3-4 is a custom valved shock. So when Mazda runs out, so does everybody.

 

I have reached out to a BIG race shock company to get a courtisy quote on more or less duplicating the Bilstein. Maybe we will shorten the body and change the bump stop a little. SCCA and SMAC have nothing to do with this. I was talking to this company on another matter, they make things other than shocks and they offered to look into it. If I get any info worth passing on, I will.

 

dave

 

Thanks Dave, this is a real viable solution to the problem.  Staring at it, is not. 

[Bench Racer]

Michael, something that is a viable solution to the race shops and the big spender SM owners may not be a viable solution to the remainder of the class. Mazda, and the SCCA should be as deeply involved in this shock search as they both were with sorting out the illegal engines. 

[949Racing]

Someone sent me a link to this discussion.

In brief, we are fully capable of producing a custom version of our Xida in volume. 100~200 sets at a time, graphs for every shock, customer defined dyno curves within specified tolerances. Single or non adjustable. Our current alloy monotube is available in two lengths. Short for increased bump travel, and right at OEM length. We can either use our already optimized damping or simply match whatever you agree is a representative Bilstein.

Easiest crossover would be just a shock, perch and our bump stop. Integrates with existing springs and mounts. Current retail for the Xida, shocks only is $1599. For a non adjustable in large volume, we could bring that down. We also have the option of building at a lower price in steel which would match the temp to damping gradient of the steel Bilstein more closely. Our current shock would run much cooler than the Bilstein and perform better at the end of a 40-minute race.

Info@949racing.com if the appropriate party wishes to discuss further.

[MPR22]

Michael, something that is a viable solution to the race shops and the big spender SM owners may not be a viable solution to the remainder of the class. Mazda, and the SCCA should be as deeply involved in this shock search as they both were with sorting out the illegal engines. 

I would rather not change shocks.  My car is perfect on 2010 shocks.  But the class will cease to grow if new cars can't be built.  SCCA/NASA should be deeply involved in the shock search/solution.