Jump to content

Photo

HST @ COTA Feb 2 - SMACK


  • Please log in to reply
176 replies to this topic

#121
Jim Drago

Jim Drago

    East Street Racing / 2 Time National Champion

  • Administrators
  • 6,566 posts
  • Location:Memphis, Tn
  • Region:Mid South
  • Car Year:2005
  • Car Number:2

Dave, Jim and all. Looking at this from the outside. Would it make any sense that all shocks come from a single provider such as SCCA Enterprises who would purchase the shocks, dyno them all and make sure they are all within a given tolerance? If the manufacturer can not be trusted to meet tolerance, how can the competitors be held to a set standard?

 

SMAC seemingly has no interest in changing the shocks as they have worked for years.. It would also require some testing and perhaps new bump stops. 

 

IMO, we are passed these shocks, especially since we have not been able to buy them for two months and they dont appear to be available anytime soon. Not quite sure how this can be good for the class? 

 

IMO, we can switch to a good shock that holds a tight tolerance and quite possibly sealed for 750 a set or so? If the price range falls close to that, IMO we would be silly not to change..  ( by good I don't mean faster, better etc. I mean available, has clearance so we are not slamming stops and damaging parts and tearing apart cars.)   

Set a ride height rule to insure slamming bump stops never happens again. Something similar to what we run now. We dont want more shock travel only to allow tires to bottom out in fender well. 

 

 

new shocks only in Super tour in 19

new and old in majors, regionals in 19

new only in majors and regionals in 20


East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080

NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Hoosier Super Tour points Champion - Hoosier Super Tour points Champion ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata BFG Supertour Winner - Majors Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner June Sprints winner  - June Sprints winner SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America SCCA National Champion - Won SCCA Runoffs at Road America

#122
chris haldeman

chris haldeman

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 928 posts
  • Location:Mckinney
  • Region:texas
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:73
Smac needs to change their mind. I am currently informing people I can not build new cars and or fix the bad/bent shocks on their car. This is not good. The time is now for a change. I am suspect that bilstien will ever have our shocks again
  • steveracer and Jim Drago like this
X-factorracing.com
3 podium finishes
2 2013 NASA nats
1 2013 Scca runoffs
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver BFG Supertour Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - Majors Winner - Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#123
Caveman-kwebb99

Caveman-kwebb99

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • Location:World Wide
  • Region:Great lakes
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:99

Isn't Mr. Cefalo supposed to make SM great again?????  :) Welcome to the smac Marc lolololol


K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)

Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup

2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio

2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!

2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America

2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest

My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
 

 

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Majors Winner - Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#124
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Why not be have a shock cost of $750/corner for the racer wantabees. How many total shocks are we talking about? Why not look at a similar shock from different manufacture. Which manufacture if any could provide the number of shocks required within one month. :rotfl:


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#125
Caveman-kwebb99

Caveman-kwebb99

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,062 posts
  • Location:World Wide
  • Region:Great lakes
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:99

Why not be have a shock cost of $750/corner for the racer wantabees. How many total shocks are we talking about? Why not look at a similar shock from different manufacture. Which manufacture if any could provide the number of shocks required within one month. :rotfl:

what we have for 450 works just fine we have all learned how to drive it, imo just let whoever wants to gain that 1 second a lap for $1200, since I have never seen anyone go 1 second a lap faster then the field! either eveyone is already doing it or is a bogus claim. Im sure the smac never saw this coming when they had very good intentions of fixing a concern...  

 

I dont think its as dire as everyone is making it out to be myself, but it certainly doesnt look rosey either.


K. Webb
Powered by East Street Racing (Best engines in Spec Miata)

Driver coach, Spec Miata Prep shop, Spec Miata Setup

2016 Hard Charger award passing 12 cars runoffs 2016 Mid Ohio

2016 P3 RUNOFFS OVER 40 DIVISION LOL!

2015 First consolation prize Northern Conference Majors Title Pageant
2015 Winner Circus Cat Majors Road America

2015 Winner BlackHawk Majors crash fest

My Signature is still not as long as Danny boy's
 

 

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Majors Winner - Chatterbox - Blah blah blah... Blah blah blah Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#126
chris haldeman

chris haldeman

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 928 posts
  • Location:Mckinney
  • Region:texas
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:73
For the record I am perfectly fine with the current shock and have no desire or need to change it other than bilstien has given up production for whatever reason and that sucks. Anybody who doesn’t think this is a real problem I can forward the emails and text messages where I am informing customers they can’t race because I don’t have shocks and neither does anybody else. Wheeler went to great lengths to get maybe 8 total front shocks from over seas. That’s it they are gone.
X-factorracing.com
3 podium finishes
2 2013 NASA nats
1 2013 Scca runoffs
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver BFG Supertour Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - Majors Winner - Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#127
Dave D.

Dave D.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Location:New Jersey
  • Region:NASA Northeast
  • Car Year:2002
  • Car Number:14

If Bilstein is indeed not interested in producing these part number shocks for a while and we now have a shortage where the door is open to price gouging for those that need them, what is really wrong with rebuilt/freshened shocks? Why can't the powers that be (NASA& SCCA)  just get off their butts, come up with acceptable shock dyno specs (like the published specs for cyl heads) and stick to them!!?? It seems the factory specs are useless and Bilstein is not loosing any sleep over our situation, so we have to take care of this matter ourselves. Instead of specing out new shocks that will cost each racer more to keep up to date, just keep the same shock that many are comfortable with, and publish dyno specs for all to comply with. We have a good idea of what the shock values should be from the dyno research by many, so tighten up the range and there we go. What's the big deal? It's cheaper in the long run to the racer to send out and refresh a known good shock isn't it?  Bilstein was ready to send back freshened shocks to Drago and call it good!


  • Bench Racer likes this

#128
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

From another Dave D., SMAC and CRB, what are you doing for the class with the continuous most entries per event? We the class owners of Spec Miata's are the one's who foot the bill. What's the current status of the SCCA on shocks for Spec Miata. I'm totally against any shocks costing more than todays shock. I'm also totally against anyone being forced to buy new other manufacture shocks to enter Super Tour, Majors or Divisional races.

 

SCCA 250772

David Dewhurst


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#129
BNaumann

BNaumann

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:DET
  • Car Year:2000
  • Car Number:67

If Bilstein is indeed not interested in producing these part number shocks for a while and we now have a shortage where the door is open to price gouging for those that need them, what is really wrong with rebuilt/freshened shocks?


Nothing is wrong with rebuilding the shocks.

#130
chris haldeman

chris haldeman

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 928 posts
  • Location:Mckinney
  • Region:texas
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:73
Rebuilding does not fix broken shocks. Shocks on the car that won Sebring Nasa champs were made in 2010 and never touched since. Car is likely the best handeling sm on earth. It has done nothing but win since it’s build with multiple drivers and engines ect. Rebuilding a non broken shock is useless inmo. Building new cars or fixing crash damage is not solved by rebuilding. Short story is bilstien should be kicked in the balls for not having shocks available :-) This is a real and right now problem. I get that most don’t understand the issue since they likely buy maybe 1 set of shocks every few years. I need 24-48 shocks per season for customers and new cars.
  • William Keeling and Jim Drago like this
X-factorracing.com
3 podium finishes
2 2013 NASA nats
1 2013 Scca runoffs
Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver BFG Supertour Winner - Circuit of the Americas Winner - Majors Winner - Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#131
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22
I can’t believe nobody has grabbed on to the real reason. NC will be introduced and Mazda/SCCA has asked Bilstein to help with the transition by not offering the shock. All new builds will have to be NC and that will make the transition faster and permanent.
Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#132
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

 Throw the bait ^ and see who'll bite.


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#133
davew

davew

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,297 posts
  • Location:Beloit, Wi
  • Region:Chicago
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:72

I won't bite the bait, but I will cut the line.

 

It appears all Bilstein production has stopped, for all sizes and shapes, not just our thin slice of the pie. So even NC cars will run out of shocks soon. The NC package that Mazda sells for SM5 and T3-4 is a custom valved shock. So when Mazda runs out, so does everybody.

 

I have reached out to a BIG race shock company to get a courtisy quote on more or less duplicating the Bilstein. Maybe we will shorten the body and change the bump stop a little. SCCA and SMAC have nothing to do with this. I was talking to this company on another matter, they make things other than shocks and they offered to look into it. If I get any info worth passing on, I will.

 

dave


  • MPR22, EricJ and lillyweld like this

Dave Wheeler
Advanced Autosports, the nations most complete Spec Miata shop
Author, Spec Miata Constructors Guide, version 1 and 2.0

Building Championship winning cars since 1995

4 time Central Division Spec Miata Champion car builder 2012-2013-2014-2017

Back to Back June Sprints Spec Miata 1-2 finishes 2016 and 2017

5 time June Sprints winner in Mazda's

6 Time Northern Conference Champion Car Builder

2014 SCCA Majors National point Champion car builder

2014 SCCA Runoffs winner, T4 (Bender)

2014 Central Division Champion, ITS (Wheeler)

2013 Thunderhill 25 hour winning crew chief

2007 June Sprints winner, (GT1, Mohrhauser)

Over 200 race wins and counting.
www.advanced-autosports.com
dave@advanced-autosports.com
608-313-1230

Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Sponsor / Advertiser - Site sponsor / advertiser... support these guys! Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#134
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Dave, I appreciate your effort but will comment. What we have with the FC bump stop works fine. Why not find another shock which will fit with the existing FC bump stop at the same shock cost $90.00/$125.00 whatever has been normal. Then change the rule that either shock may be used.  Other than this ^, there are many scenario's where little Joe Blow will get screwed over the same as when not enough Fat Cat kits, bilstein shocks and ect.  


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#135
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995

^^^From a cost perspective...staying in your price range DD means going with a LARGE shock supplier...my guess is chooses are limited.

If DW info is accurate getting ahead of the game now seems prudent. We are being hamstrung here by the market...nothing else. Many now are already screwed because they cant get a replacement for their SD1 or SD2 shocks(legal for years)or the well documented Fat Cat super shocks that are dyno legal but make you 1 second faster :)

Point is, I think the class is going to have to take a small financial hit in order to move forward(really no choice). We grandfather Bilsteins for a short period and move on. To fix the problem for the cost of a set of tires seems reasonable to me! Lets turn the page!!


Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#136
J. Pressman

J. Pressman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts
  • Location:Boulder, CO
  • Car Year:1999

I think it would be silly not to move to an improved shock given the opportunity to make change.  A moderate expense for a superior product just makes sense.  My primary concern would be lifespan and durability.  I would expect the new shocks to last at least as long as the current Bilstein.  I'd also expect a generous adoption period, similar to what was outlined a few posts back, though i'm sure most will jump ship ASAP.  I'm running with one of the the smallest budgets around and am open to a change.

 

I'd be very curious to know what Emilio at Supermiata, or somebody who really knows the miata platform AND good dampers would recommend for a non-adjustable, budget friendly, spec damper that solved some of the known issues with the current unit, and can hold much tighter tolerances.  His adjustable XIDA units are AMAZING!


2007 ARRC Champion - SSM

 


#137
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22

I won't bite the bait, but I will cut the line.

 

It appears all Bilstein production has stopped, for all sizes and shapes, not just our thin slice of the pie. So even NC cars will run out of shocks soon. The NC package that Mazda sells for SM5 and T3-4 is a custom valved shock. So when Mazda runs out, so does everybody.

 

I have reached out to a BIG race shock company to get a courtisy quote on more or less duplicating the Bilstein. Maybe we will shorten the body and change the bump stop a little. SCCA and SMAC have nothing to do with this. I was talking to this company on another matter, they make things other than shocks and they offered to look into it. If I get any info worth passing on, I will.

 

dave

 

Thanks Dave, this is a real viable solution to the problem.  Staring at it, is not. 


Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation

#138
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Michael, something that is a viable solution to the race shops and the big spender SM owners may not be a viable solution to the remainder of the class. Mazda, and the SCCA should be as deeply involved in this shock search as they both were with sorting out the illegal engines. 


Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#139
949Racing

949Racing

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts
  • Location:Lake Forest, CA
  • Region:SoCal
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:949

Someone sent me a link to this discussion.

In brief, we are fully capable of producing a custom version of our Xida in volume. 100~200 sets at a time, graphs for every shock, customer defined dyno curves within specified tolerances. Single or non adjustable. Our current alloy monotube is available in two lengths. Short for increased bump travel, and right at OEM length. We can either use our already optimized damping or simply match whatever you agree is a representative Bilstein.

Easiest crossover would be just a shock, perch and our bump stop. Integrates with existing springs and mounts. Current retail for the Xida, shocks only is $1599. For a non adjustable in large volume, we could bring that down. We also have the option of building at a lower price in steel which would match the temp to damping gradient of the steel Bilstein more closely. Our current shock would run much cooler than the Bilstein and perform better at the end of a 40-minute race.

Info@949racing.com if the appropriate party wishes to discuss further.



#140
MPR22

MPR22

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,138 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Region:Southwest
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:22

Michael, something that is a viable solution to the race shops and the big spender SM owners may not be a viable solution to the remainder of the class. Mazda, and the SCCA should be as deeply involved in this shock search as they both were with sorting out the illegal engines. 

I would rather not change shocks.  My car is perfect on 2010 shocks.  But the class will cease to grow if new cars can't be built.  SCCA/NASA should be deeply involved in the shock search/solution.  


Shattering - For those who cant drink tequila NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner Majors Winner - Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Donor - Made PayPal donation




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users