135 replies to this topic

[TommyB]

Ben@ Advanced

 

When you talk about the Willwood bearing failure are you referring to their tappered roller bearings or their ball bearings?

 

Tom B.

[tburas56]

we have used the Mazda Roller Bearings in the turbo car for the past 12 race weekends no failures. The crazy maintenance sucked, but no failures. 225 45 15 A7. They redesigned the locking mechanism and now it as easy to use at as any OEM bearing. Use the stock nut and no more maintenance. According to Josh and Mazda they have a full season of the new type, no maintenance and zero failures. The new system is slick and even I can do it. #worththeinvestment!

[38bfast]

I know that the Mazda has done a revamp on their hubs that were "not user friendly" (torquing process, etc.). They are currently going to be tested at the 25-Hour. It'll be interesting to see the result.

We are testing the new fix as well. 3 weekends and 3 test days on them and so far so good. Not conclusive but off to a good start. 

[Jim Drago]

FWIW.. 

I ran the entire season on our hubs with no failures. New hubs installed before Nasa Champs and ran through the Runoffs and plan on running all of 2020 or until we see a failure

Jim

[Ben-AdvancedAutosports]

The Willwood hubs that failed were the tapered roller bearings.

[Bench Racer]

The Willwood hubs that failed were the tapered roller bearings.

Ben, what within the Willwood hub if you could tell was the root cause of the failure?

[Steve Scheifler]

Broadly speaking there seem to be two types of failure, the bearings/races and actual structural failure of the hub itself, typically around the wheel mounting flanges and studs. It would be very helpful if everyone be more specific about failures to at least that extent.

We have used numerous aftermarket front hubs including a stack I bought from rock auto for $9 each figuring that if they lasted one weekend each they were still comparatively cheap (they did, though a few were pretty much done after that while others lasted many weekends). Despite having tried every aftermarket version I could find we have never had a single structural failure. Tracks we race include some without brutal curbs and rumbles but others like Road America and Blackhawk where hubs take a beating. I’m left wondering why others suffer broken hubs and whether most of them have had long studs installed.

I’ve inspected some of our failed bearings and been unable to conclusively determine whether ball or race failed first but the experience of others makes me suspect the race is more common.

[Bench Racer]

I’ve inspected some of our failed bearings and been unable to conclusively determine whether ball or race failed first but the experience of others makes me suspect the race is more common.

Manufacturing process may indicate the outer races case hardening would be the first to fail over the inner races or balls, correct.

[Dave D.]

I have wondered(because I have not yet had enough free time to devote to really getting deep into it), what is happening when a bearing loosens up "just a little", with no noise. When disassembled showed no pitting/brinelling  or damaged bearings(although never had them looked at under a scope or comparitor. I would clean them up, take .0015 to .002 off on a surface grinder and run it until I "timed it out" with no issues. I keep wanting to take the hubs to a buddy's place to have them magged when I am servicing them, but I am usually in a rush to get the car back together for the next event. 

[Mike Collins]

Ralph, have you measured the track on the car with the Miatahubs and 25mm offset wheels?  Its looks like those hubs would make the track about 1mm-2mm too wide???

[38bfast]

Ralph, have you measured the track on the car with the Miatahubs and 25mm offset wheels?  Its looks like those hubs would make the track about 1mm-2mm too wide

Track is identical. Offset is the same. If it wasn't the calipers wouldn't fit. Caliper to rotor offset is same as stock. 

[Mike Collins]

Thanks

[TommyB]

Jim, you said,

 

"Until we see a failure"........is that just getting loose, actual disassembly and inspection , the wheel/hub coming off the car or_______________ ?

 

Your input is appreciated.

 

Tom B.

[Jim Drago]

Jim, you said,

 

"Until we see a failure"........is that just getting loose, actual disassembly and inspection , the wheel/hub coming off the car or_______________ ?

 

Your input is appreciated.

 

Tom B.

 

Start getting loose.. They are junk after that

[Sphinx]

I just read through these 7 pages and realized that I learned almost nothing. 

 

FWIW, Moog (36 mths), Raybestos (lifetime) and SKF (36 mths) offer min 3 year warranties - not that you'll cash in on it, but perhaps their quality is a little better.

 

The only "retail" ones that are priced outside of "normal" are these Altrom branded NAPA ones (2121306 for NB's) retail for $~300 per side.  Anyone dissect those?

 

I did talk to someone recently who buys these $100 per side (brand unimportant) and tosses them each weekend.

[RazerX]

I've run out of my old stock.  What are peeps running now? ; MiataHubs, or Mazdaspeed's race hubs, or OEM and run the random manufacturer risk?