135 replies to this topic

[Tom Sager]

Yeah but we're getting a new skinnier lower grip tire next year in SCCA that will restore front hub/bearing life to what it once was, right? 

[Bench Racer]

The miatahub.com hubs look to use a cartridge which doesn't require preloading at all. Downside is you need a press to change it though.

Where may one view this hub? miatahub.com gets nothing for me.

[OrangeCrush86]

Where may one view this hub? miatahub.com gets nothing for me.

 

It was posted higher up. https://www.miatahubs.com/

[Delanie Calhoun]

The one I just took off my car only had 10.5 balls. Hmmmm. (Just ordered a pair from East Street.)

[Tom Hampton]

Every hub ball-bearing I've measured is 0.4055-0.4060. That's pretty damn close to 13/32" = 0.40625...which is the closest thing I can find on VXB. Seems odd that Mazda would have a "non-metric" ball-bearing (10.30-32 mm)...but, maybe that's just the way thing were back in the day? 

 

I've lost both front hubs in the course of two weekends.  That also makes 4 front hubs (3 OEM used, 1 Autozone) in 8 weekends (roughly).  The autozone lasted 1 weekend.  I've only inspected one of them, which had deveoped deep pitting on the inboard hub-race and had a badly discolored and mishapen ball.  I also spent half a race driving on that one (outside on dominant direction), because I didn't recognize the noise.  Lucked out and finished that race. 

 

Anyway, I know the lore is that its usually the race that fails...but at $22 / 100 ea new 13/32" G10 balls seem like a no brainer.   ...Since I need to replenish my stock of prepped hubs.

[Paul44]

This summer, I have observed 2 front hub failures where the bearing was fine but the hub failed and became a multi-piece assembly causing the car and the offending front wheel to part company.  One in Spec Miata (LF), and one dedicated track car (RF).  I know the SM had a MazdaSpeed hub with whatever special balls and grease they come with.  Neither of us can recall an impact to that wheel.  The SM had ARP extended studs.

 

Paul Gilbert

[Tom Sager]

This summer, I have observed 2 front hub failures where the bearing was fine but the hub failed and became a multi-piece assembly causing the car and the offending front wheel to part company.  One in Spec Miata (LF), and one dedicated track car (RF).  I know the SM had a MazdaSpeed hub with whatever special balls and grease they come with.  Neither of us can recall an impact to that wheel.  The SM had ARP extended studs.

 

Paul Gilbert

 

Hi Paul, I'd say your NA1.8 is too heavy at 2400 pounds.

 

Kidding, sort of.

 

How much time was on the Mazda hub?  I've been using new Mazda hubs (same as you described I believe) for the last 3 years or so and have at least 4 events on the current set in my '01 car with no failures.  This would be the hub that costs about $180 each from Mazda?  I check them for runout and re-torque every couple events and have never re-packed them.  I have replaced a couple of them that showed some play but IIRC they had at least 5 events on them.  Once they show some play I toss them.  These have been the best I've found except for original used Mazda street car hubs but my collection of those has been mostly exhausted. 

 

I had a chance to look at one of the roller bearing hubs recently that some company has been selling for a couple years.  Great looking piece, expensive but rebuildable.  Person that showed me swears by them, but few on this site have said much about using them.   They're heavy and maybe some racers don't like that. 

[Bench Racer]

Guy's I've raced maybe 15 weekends and never had a hub failure. No comments required.

 

Speaking of the high end $$$ front hubs double tapered bearings, I do not understand why the special tweeking when tightening the hub nut. Anybody care to explain? 

[Jim Drago]

Guy's I've raced maybe 15 weekends and never had a hub failure. No comments required.

 

 

You cant lob that softball out there and not expect any comments

[Tom Sager]

Guy's I've raced maybe 15 weekends and never had a hub failure. No comments required.

 

Speaking of the high end $$$ front hubs double tapered bearings, I do not understand why the special tweeking when tightening the hub nut. Anybody care to explain? 

 

I was going to mention that the bottom ball bearings on each of your hubs are flattened but you'd probably tell me the car is on jack stands.  I think you've identified a goal though.  Get that car out in 2020 and try to destroy a hub. 

[Tom Hampton]

You cant lob that softball out there and not expect any comments

Sure he can...might not be a reasonable expectation...but, when has reason gotten in his way before? :-)

[Paul44]

Hi Paul, I'd say your NA1.8 is too heavy at 2400 pounds.

 

Kidding, sort of.

 

How much time was on the Mazda hub?  I've been using new Mazda hubs (same as you described I believe) for the last 3 years or so and have at least 4 events on the current set in my '01 car with no failures.  This would be the hub that costs about $180 each from Mazda?  I check them for runout and re-torque every couple events and have never re-packed them.  I have replaced a couple of them that showed some play but IIRC they had at least 5 events on them.  Once they show some play I toss them.  These have been the best I've found except for original used Mazda street car hubs but my collection of those has been mostly exhausted. 

 

I had a chance to look at one of the roller bearing hubs recently that some company has been selling for a couple years.  Great looking piece, expensive but rebuildable.  Person that showed me swears by them, but few on this site have said much about using them.   They're heavy and maybe some racers don't like that. 

I think the car is too heavy at 2400 lbs also.  Bigger problem is that the driver is too slow.  Until now, I have not kept track of how long the hubs have been on the car.  maintenance is wiggle for play and go out on the track for next session.  There were probably 8 weekends on the offending LF hub.

[WAR]

Having recent unfortunate experience with hubs in a 200TW tire endurance car, I can tell you my experience:

 

1. Stock junkyard hubs lasted many races in these cars when they were on a 15x7 wheel with with stock power (1.8) 

2. Moving to a better 15x9 wheel and 225 tire made a few hubs wear a little quicker at the bearing, but never fail. 

3. Purchasing SKF, NTN etc new hubs all ended in the same result: Catastrophic hub failure resulting in the wheel leaving the car under load, longest run time on "new" parts store hubs was 4 hours. Every one of them was total junk. Sourced from different places, but all crap. 

4. Heading into COTA this weekend with new miatahubs.com hubs, word is these will last forever. We shall see! 

 

Side note: Rear stock hub also had catastrophic failure at hub ring, so we switched to the Toyota MR2 hub. That has been the only rear hub failure we have seen after many endurance events. 

 

Lastly, impacts, off track etc, are somewhat unknown, multiple drivers over many 8 hour events, car gets beat up. 

[38bfast]

We have a few hundred hours on the Miatahubs.com hubs and no issue at all. Endurance car at 2150 with driver on 200TW 205s. Yea they cost way too much but so far they have not failed. 

[Bench Racer]

Ralph, these miatahubs come from around indy, correct. Up a few posts I questioned why the high $$$ hub nuts required such fine tweaking, those I mentioned were the MI fabed hubs and the tweaking made/makes no sense to me (Hampton, no comment required). The miatahubs tightening process seems to be totally normal in the real world.

[TommyB]

Any reason why no body is seems to be talking about the new Wilwood roller bearing hubs?

 

Looking at their parts diagram they seem to do away with the traditional ARP style stud bolts in favor of their own threaded- in allen head socket design.

 

Also, Not sure if their tapered roller bearings are available off the shelf or if they are proprietary to Wilwood.

 

My F prod car could surely use a hub upgrade.

 

Tom B.

[Jim Drago]

Any reason why no body is seems to be talking about the new Wilwood roller bearing hubs?

 

Looking at their parts diagram they seem to do away with the traditional ARP style stud bolts in favor of their own threaded- in allen head socket design.

 

Also, Not sure if their tapered roller bearings are available off the shelf or if they are proprietary to Wilwood.

 

My F prod car could surely use a hub upgrade.

 

Tom B.

Likely bc they are not legal in Sm. They do look nice though

[gerglmuff2]

seems like those tapered roller bearing hubs got legalized really fast, and they turned out to be duds .... if these hubs do turn out to work, whats the barriers to legality in SM?

[Ben-AdvancedAutosports]

We have been chasing hubs for the last several years.  Everytime we find a good manufacturer it seems like they change a manufacturing process and we are back where we started.  The old work-hardened used bearings still seem to be the best.  I tried the new Willwood bearings on my enduro car and had a catastrophic failure after about 12hrs of run time.  The Mazda ones seem to be the best of the "off the shelf" bearings lately.  They are actually re-branded NTN bearings.  Over the years we have used NTN, SKF, Moog, Raybestos, all with the same results.

[Xav]

I know that the Mazda has done a revamp on their hubs that were "not user friendly" (torquing process, etc.). They are currently going to be tested at the 25-Hour. It'll be interesting to see the result.