135 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

If, as suspected by some who have already gone down this path, the weak link is typically the race, then you may get little benefit. It seems that higher precision balls should be easier on the race but perhaps not significantly, or maybe the soft race initially sustains damage from shock load. Curious to hear from others who have experimented.

[OrangeCrush86]

Anyone tried these?

https://www.wilwood.... Hub Kit (Race)

[TylerQuance]

I read in an old SpecMiata.com post that ceramic balls would not be technically compliant so when I started building my own I found VXB bearings online. Only place I could find steel ball bearings in Grade 10. Mine are only using original Mazda cores.

[av8tor]

I hear these are the best. https://www.ortechce...vEaArdMEALw_wcB

 

That was a weak attempt at humor. Ceramic bearings are not legal in SM.

[Brandon]

Anyone tried these?

https://www.wilwood.... Hub Kit (Race)

 

Someone with deeper pockets then myself!

$700/hub?!?!

 

Granted, forged AL, CNC machined and all that but hey-seuss christos!!

[Brandon]

I just want the details...  like specifics..  PN, findings etc..  I bought 8 different types...  Its not the cost... its the details etc.  Sure... Buy mine..  they are the best.  Got it.  But..  I want to know exactly why one hub is different than another.. etc.. 

 

Weight, dimensions PN being used, balls, cage type etc.  I purchased from 25 bucks each... to 223 dollars each..  Not seeing to much variation with the exception of my old 1990 hubs... 

 

Unicorn wax and plasma magic seals is the only striking difference i have found between the 25 dollar hub and the 230... but thats just visual inspection..  Sending all the bearings out individually bagged for weight, specs of each..  Guess will see...  Im no pro shop so..  I know there are differences.. 

 

Here are the hubs I am tearing apart:  I am certain this has been done by all the shops...  but.. i can't find it anywhere..

 

713152  Raybestos  105.68  These were the only ones straight out of the box... you put on your hand and twirl..  would just spin effortlessly..   Nothing scientific... just first impression.

405.45005E Centric  46.00

BHA53367  TRQ...   these are 60 bucks for a pair..   Never seen before..  They came from Worldpak   Also seen on Amazon.

29513152  DuraGo  25 bucks  the cheapo I have a set of these on my 99 daily driver now for 40K miles...  its not racing.. but.. haven't had any issues.  Installed straight from box..

BR930143 SKF 114 bucks  

0000-04-5HUB-S1  Endurance Hub  223.50   Mazda Parts Store  This is what i currently use.  I disassemble and repack with previously discussed unicorn wax.. 

513152 Mogg  107.99  Used these before.  Have not had any issues.  I have one in my trailer for spare.

0000-04-5HUB-01  HD Hub.  190.50  Mazda parts Store

 

 

If memory serves, Advanced Auto sells the Raybestos models with their selection of grease (their website notes the brand, Schaeffer?). That line of hub has 12 balls per side as opposed to 11 and weighs about 1.5# more than the stock/typical Mazda OEM one (confirmed as delivered with grease and same studs on both when weighed).

 

If you're buying the Mazda Endurance hub and repacking , then you're wasting about $50 worth of labor & lube that ProParts (PP) is hired to do for Mazda. The PP process consists of an additional hardening points (you can see the 3 discolored rings around the circumference of the hub as opposed to one on the factory unit), more spherical balls, and repacking with the special grease (I've read it's a special Mobil-1 product you can only get in large quantities). Repacking these with your own grease risks damaging the seal and you lose out on the grease they preinstall.

 

But to each their own.

[Brandon]

Not keep posting on this thread (but I will).

 

I saw this posted to a Miata group on FB.

https://www.miatatur...version-100121/

 

Has anyone bought or used these yet? Seems like they might be another option to the sealed bearing product which folks didn't care for (as I've never seen anyone use them yet).

[Steve Scheifler]

Not keep posting on this thread (but I will).

I saw this posted to a Miata group on FB.
https://www.miatatur...version-100121/

Has anyone bought or used these yet? Seems like they might be another option to the sealed bearing product which folks didn't care for (as I've never seen anyone use them yet).

I presume that neither these nor the Wilwood are currently allowed in SM.

You measured a 1.5# difference between standard (OEN or equivalent) hubs? I am surprised it would be that much.

[OrangeCrush86]

Someone with deeper pockets then myself!

$700/hub?!?!

 

Granted, forged AL, CNC machined and all that but hey-seuss christos!!

 

Still cheaper than a retub when the garbage OEM ones fail!

 

I wonder if we could negotiate a price break if we made these SM legal?

[OrangeCrush86]

I presume that neither these nor the Wilwood are currently allowed in SM.

You measured a 1.5# difference between standard (OEN or equivalent) hubs? I am surprised it would be that much.

 

The rules already allow that aftermarket, tapered roller bearing, hub. I don't see why we couldn't also make this an option as it's basically the same design but with what appears to be a much better bearing preload system (look at the expanded view on the Wilwood site).

[Jim Drago]

The rules already allow that aftermarket, tapered roller bearing, hub. I don't see why we couldn't also make this an option as it's basically the same design but with what appears to be a much better bearing preload system (look at the expanded view on the Wilwood site).

You would need to submit a letter.. after the last one didnt do all that well and has many reporting failures even after they tested it.. They may be reluctant? but worth a try. They look 

nice though

Jim

[Jeff Wasilko]

I've been running https://www.miatahubs.com/ this season (not in SM) and so far so good, but too soon to tell. We've also got a set we're going to put on our AER enduro car.

 

They're beefy.

 

I've noticed a reduction in pad knockback.

[FTodaro]

You would need to submit a letter.. after the last one didnt do all that well and has many reporting failures even after they tested it.. They may be reluctant? but worth a try. They look 

nice though

Jim

I am not sure why that is. They have already opened the door to a non OEM option. they should open it up and let Market competition lower the price. The problem with this and other examples going into the future is that the the best hub IMO is the original hub which is getting harder to find. Most of the aftermarket OEM style hubs just don't hold up as well as the old stuff. 

[OrangeCrush86]

I am not sure why that is. They have already opened the door to a non OEM option. they should open it up and let Market competition lower the price. The problem with this and other examples going into the future is that the the best hub IMO is the original hub which is getting harder to find. Most of the aftermarket OEM style hubs just don't hold up as well as the old stuff. 

 

As stated it's already been done. However I think the way to lower the cost would be through an agreement with Mazda (like the current roller bearing hubs???). I don't think opening up SM to any hub will make $600 hubs suddenly be $300.

[Pat Mcg]

I hear these are the best. https://www.ortechce...vEaArdMEALw_wcB

[Pat Mcg]

If memory serves, Advanced Auto sells the Raybestos models with their selection of grease (their website notes the brand, Schaeffer?). That line of hub has 12 balls per side as opposed to 11 and weighs about 1.5# more than the stock/typical Mazda OEM one (confirmed as delivered with grease and same studs on both when weighed).

 

If you're buying the Mazda Endurance hub and repacking , then you're wasting about $50 worth of labor & lube that ProParts (PP) is hired to do for Mazda. The PP process consists of an additional hardening points (you can see the 3 discolored rings around the circumference of the hub as opposed to one on the factory unit), more spherical balls, and repacking with the special grease (I've read it's a special Mobil-1 product you can only get in large quantities). Repacking these with your own grease risks damaging the seal and you lose out on the grease they preinstall.

 

But to each their own.

I don't buy the mazda endurance hub and immediately repack.  I buy... use for about 6 weekends... and then repack.  repack after 25 hours of use on car.. now... i have no basis on the 25 hours.. just that it is easiest for me to establish a baseline from.  I have been doing this for last two years..  now that i also have a champcar miata my data should start improving...  In last 2 years only one HUB failure...  the plastic cage holding failed ...  during investigation...  was in multiple pieces..  Luckily the hub was caught and removed and did not fail in service or while on track.       Having all 8 different types of hubs all torn apart, there are some big differences..  The cage that holds the bearings (Balls) is the most significant difference between each of the models from visual inspection only..  This entire tear down is actually turning out to be very informative for me. 

[BlueJay73]

I called Wilwood. Their hubs are $700 per set of 2 hubs. $350 per hub.

[OrangeCrush86]

I called Wilwood. Their hubs are $700 per set of 2 hubs. $350 per hub.

 

Somebody test them and report back.

[Bench Racer]

What's interesting about the Wilwood hub installation is, it's the normal installation for a vehicle hub with tapered roller bearings. From recall, the special tapered bearing hub Mazda sells, tighting the axle nut was a very sensitive adjustment.

[OrangeCrush86]

The miatahub.com hubs look to use a cartridge which doesn't require preloading at all. Downside is you need a press to change it though.