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Tire management

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Poll: tire management (83 member(s) have cast votes)

Do we need a tire management program

  1. yes (73 votes [87.95%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 87.95%

  2. no (6 votes [7.23%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.23%

  3. undecided (4 votes [4.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.82%

Opinions on proposed program

  1. I like it is as is, no changes (54 votes [65.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.06%

  2. I don't like it (4 votes [4.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.82%

  3. I like it but it needs some work (25 votes [30.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.12%

Do you agree with the tire replacement part of the proposal?

  1. yes, leave it as is (54 votes [65.06%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.06%

  2. no not at all (5 votes [6.02%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.02%

  3. yes I agree but the plan needs work (24 votes [28.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 28.92%

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#241
Steve Scheifler

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...
How many times have you flat spotted all four? We shouldn't base much of the plan imo based on something that rarely happens in the first place..



Well, a few years ago Tyler Brown and I touched at 120 approaching Canada corner. I went sideways, collected it and continued but not before burning well into the steel belts on one, to the cord on another and slightly square on the other two. But there was video so I expect I’d get an exception.
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#242
Tom Sager

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I’d take 10 spot penalty for stickers with very little thought at most tracks.

 

That right there highlights the need not only for the rule but also for a different tire. 


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#243
RWP80000

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Letter submitted.

(I’m tired of being outspent by those who are beating me. On the occasions I’ve joined in fully on the spending spree, they are still beating me. There must be some secret spending going on that I don’t know about. So I’m also for banning all secret spending so that I can finally win some damn races.)

CNJ

CNJ,

My wife 100% supports your ban on the secret spending she doesn't know about and now wants to "mark" my allowance!


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#244
OrangeCrush86

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Money always wins in this game. Even if we enact this rule, it will just free up funds of the top guys (prep shops) which they can spend on some other advantage.


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#245
Steve Scheifler

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Money always wins in this game. Even if we enact this rule, it will just free up funds of the top guys (prep shops) which they can spend on some other advantage.


In my admittedly not at all humble opinion in this case, that is absolutely not true. Unless you want to include more seat time, personal coaching and the like there are very few things you can spend more money on (within the rules) to go faster in this class. Tires are FAR AND AWAY the biggest and most expensive of those and even if there are a few things YOU aren’t doing yet that you could, you can be certain that the guys up front already are. Sorry, but it’s just a really, really misleading statement.
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#246
Steve Scheifler

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Just and FYI, SCCA handed out Tire Limit Questionnaire to drivers at the Watkins Glen HST this weekend.

...


Danny, please tell us more about what was in it as well as how it was distributed and returned.
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#247
Jim Drago

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In my admittedly not at all humble opinion in this case, that is absolutely not true. Unless you want to include more seat time, personal coaching and the like there are very few things you can spend more money on (within the rules) to go faster in this class. Tires are FAR AND AWAY the biggest and most expensive of those and even if there are a few things YOU aren’t doing yet that you could, you can be certain that the guys up front already are. Sorry, but it’s just a really, really misleading statement.

Hear that all the time, It makes some feel better I assume?  Obviously you need enough money to race, but IMO, you aren't buying wins or championships in this class. The cost of a top car just isn't enough to gain the advantage needed to money whip someone.  I have been racing in this class for 15 years now. Never have I seen so many good cars. Cars in the 20s are as fast as the guys in the front. It used to be you could drive straight through all but the top 4-5 guys, it is not that way anymore.  

 

FWIW...The 2015 and 2016 SCCA National Champions won the biggest race in our class on what most would consider a shoestring budget.  Both cars were far from what I would consider "top notch" and their budgets were regional type at best.


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#248
gerglmuff2

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Money always wins in this game. Even if we enact this rule, it will just free up funds of the top guys (prep shops) which they can spend on some other advantage.

 

maybe true, but the point of the rules is to make sure that the advantage they do spends oddles of money on is small with little payback. 

no one i think currently would put tires into a category that a lot of money can be spent with little payback. its probably the top item on the list, in terms of easy speed. 

money always helps, but the goal of a spec ruleset is to force those who want to spend it all, they end up spending it on stuff that doesn't give them that much of an advantage compared to someone who doesnt. tire are NOT that right now. fresher tires is a significant advantage, and a significant cost. the goal of good rule making is to make lots of things of small significance performance-wise, significantly expensive. 


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#249
William Keeling

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#250
Danny Steyn

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Danny, please tell us more about what was in it as well as how it was distributed and returned.

 

Single sheet of paper with various questions that I do not remember, handed out to HST drivers. All of us under the OPM tent got one so I know SM drivers were handed one, but it might have been handed out to other classes as well. Cannot confirm. Collected by one of the SCCA HST officials


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#251
CDM

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I just wanted to add that at the Roebling Road Majors last weekend we had a gentleman's agreement of one set and it worked out pretty well imo. A real test as Roebling in the brutal summer Georgia heat is known for being one of the toughest tracks for tires in the southeast (barring CMP: where tires do in fact come to die  :laughing:). Lap times went from 1:23s and 24s saturday to 25s and 26s sunday which is quite acceptable for the conditions I think. The best thing about this type of agreement/rule is I won the set I used back with contingency, so I'm a bit biased towards it but who wouldn't be at saving $800 + a free set?  :cheerful:.

 

In terms of problems noticed: I'm not sure how it was in the middle/back of the pack but one person towards the front with me managed to cord stickers in just the few laps of qualifying and the 20 minute race on saturday... Naturally instead of used tires he put stickers on for sunday and so the racing karma gods were displeased and his car broke down a few laps in. I think the lesson here to be learned with this rule/agreement is that it is important to keep the tires under you/not slide the car in every corner, and I think it would add in this important factor and therefore raise the skill ceiling by rewarding smooth consistent at the limit driving.


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#252
Vinnie Baratta

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On this subject- any news from Hoosier as to the next generation of SM tire? Are we getting it next year? This time last year people were talking as if it was happening but its gotten really quiet as of late.

#253
gerglmuff2

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fasttrack says SMAC is working on a tire cost management solution, and to look for an upcoming rule .... 


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#254
Bul Winkle

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From Hoosier, yesterday afternoon: The 7.5 will be released for the Buttonwillow race 21 Feb.

 

 

clean your wheels....


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#255
Vinnie Baratta

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I heard Feb from appalachian tire too. Presumably SM7s at COTA? really wish there was some communication on this...

#256
tLinder

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I heard Feb from appalachian tire too. Presumably SM7s at COTA? really wish there was some communication on this...

Agreed!!!

 

Historically (tire) changes are phased in and since the next flavor of SMx will be slower (unless you believe Hoosier will make the unicorn tire, faster / more life) the top dogs will stay with the SM7 until they are no longer allowed.  (In other words, you can budget / buy SM7s for COTA). 


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#257
Caveman-kwebb99

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Agreed!!!

Historically (tire) changes are phased in and since the next flavor of SMx will be slower (unless you believe Hoosier will make the unicorn tire, faster / more life) the top dogs will stay with the SM7 until they are no longer allowed. (In other words, you can budget / buy SM7s for COTA).


The new tire coming along is essentially the r7 same compound as the sm7 slightly different tread configuration no idea of there are any other appreciable differences.

If you believe that the sm7.5 is going to help anyone with tire costs I have some beautiful property to sell you in a very nice swamp in Florida.
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#258
RWP80000

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Check the January 2020 GCR SM Rules section under tires (9.1.7.6).   SM7.5 tires are allowed as of 1-1-2020 ( if you can get them) and the SM7 tires can be used at Majors/HST events through 10-1-2020.  So the SM7.5 will be the required tire at the 2020 Road America Runoff's but either tire can be run through out the year.  I do not think there will be a large supply of SM7 tires to be had and they will all probably have date codes of "4819" or earlier (my guess).  Regional event use of SM7 is allowed until 1-1-2022.

 

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#259
Camaro67racer

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Attached is the official letter I just got in an SCCA email.

 

 

Attached Files


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#260
gerglmuff2

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The new tire coming along is essentially the r7 same compound as the sm7 slightly different tread configuration no idea of there are any other appreciable differences.

If you believe that the sm7.5 is going to help anyone with tire costs I have some beautiful property to sell you in a very nice swamp in Florida.

 

i mean if its just moving the SM7 to the R7 mold as suspected, then it should be slightly faster, like slightly, and probably wear slightly, slightly better. the main cost of the dotted line versus full rain groove is the tires wont be as good in the wet/marginal conditions. they will hold the tread more steady, so hopefully give us a bit more wear, and they put more rubber on the road. also means it will spread the heat out over more rubber. 

as long as it doesn't cost more, its a win. if it costs more, then its probably not. 

either way, not much is changing. the naming convention ".5" tells us its likely a short term solution, and SMAC is looking for more from hoosier for the *


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