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It's time for Super Tours unleash the NB cars!

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#21
sentercut

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Probably a dumb question, but if the Spec MX5 class doesn't have any real traction can those NC's not get classed into the NB's without RS's or is that just a CF? Seems like the NC is the future to some degree, could they not race together competitively?

 

I agree with not creating any more classes, unless another one is combined or deleted. 


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#22
Andy Mitchell

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Swapping a 1.8 into an early car is easy (and way cheaper than building a whole new one). NA cars could probably run heads-up with the NB cars in an unrestricted class if you allowed engine swaps.


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#23
LarryKing

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It dawned on me that this idea seemed familiar - give huge breaks to the "haves" and take away assistance for the "have nots." Hmmmm, where have I seen that before.

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#24
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No idea if the regional drivers are unhappy.. but this proposal doesn't effect them, so they should be no more or less "happy"

 

No scare tactics.. one member with an idea that would allow 93% of the class to run faster and be more appealing for little to no extra cost.. Its a topic like others to debate, no more, no less

 

 

There was NEVER a point where 15k car was first rate car, never. 

 

 

This is were I disagree, in our region at least most are both majors and regional racers. If I have to decided to make my NB car a regional or a national car, I would probably choose regional at this point as I see very little value in the super tour these days.  Those that want to make their car into a ST car will likely no longer do regionals.  

 

IMO splitting the class is just dumb.  allow the NA cars to upgrade to VVT or 99 engine and wire harness and sub frames stick with the same rp's we have now get a better tire and then we have something.  send any NA 1.6 or 1.8 that wants to stay in their configuration into the IT regional group.  There may be some heart burn from those NA's that dont want to upgrade or I suppose they could always downgrade and become SSM cars which seems like a great class in some parts of the country.


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#25
Nathan Pring

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WDCR has already solved this problem - SSM.  They get up to 40+ NA cars a round.  I'm running a 1.6 NA right now in SMSE and the last two rounds I've only had 2 other competitors, the most was about 8 - something has to give. 

 

I'm in the camp of splitting the NAs and the NBs, there's no point trying to equalize them.  It's not like you're inventing a new class, there's already SMSE.  Just improve the SMSE ruleset, unrestrict the NBs and possibly open it up to NCs (restricted?) and let em go.  I think if you give the NAs a home to go to, the NBs will continue to be successful and you wont have to worry about parity with the NA.  Seems this is the way it has been evolving anyway. 


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#26
Jim Drago

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It dawned on me that this idea seemed familiar - give huge breaks to the "haves" and take away assistance for the "have nots." Hmmmm, where have I seen that before.

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typical  :rolleyes:


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#27
OrangeCrush86

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WDCR has already solved this problem - SSM.  They get up to 40+ NA cars a round.  I'm running a 1.6 NA right now in SMSE and the last two rounds I've only had 2 other competitors, the most was about 8 - something has to give. 

 

I'm in the camp of splitting the NAs and the NBs, there's no point trying to equalize them.  It's not like you're inventing a new class, there's already SMSE.  Just improve the SMSE ruleset, unrestrict the NBs and possibly open it up to NCs (restricted?) and let em go.  I think if you give the NAs a home to go to, the NBs will continue to be successful and you wont have to worry about parity with the NA.  Seems this is the way it has been evolving anyway. 

 

SSM and SMSE are exactly the kinds of classes we should remove. Excessive regional classes already split fields and confuse new drivers. I raced SM for two years before I even found out what SSM and SMSE, plus we have SMT as well.


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#28
Jim Drago

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SSM and SMSE are exactly the kinds of classes we should remove. Excessive regional classes already split fields and confuse new drivers. I raced SM for two years before I even found out what SSM and SMSE, plus we have SMT as well.

In general I agree with this 100% .. But SSM in DC region is probably the most successful  Sm program of all or real close (regional, national or Super Tour if you count entries per event)


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#29
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I have a list of the entries so far this year, added them up and did the math.. if you doubt it, do the math ;)  You have the same info I have

Please provide how to find this list of entries you worked with.

as far as regional entries.. great.. run the class as is in regionals, this doenst effect regionals

Does you answer mean regional classes are for NA only.

There is more to the SM class than Majors and Hoosier Super Tour.... 

Correct, but HST and majors are the best examples of what the cars can do.. for others not so serious and already NOT running in majors and super tours, they have the regionals

Is the class purpose and intent about cars or drivers. Seems the purpose is about drivers.


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#30
gerglmuff2

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Jim Drago:

>the NA6, built to the rules and driven well, can totally compete. we all just drive NBs because they are newer and prettier
>we should dump the NA into another class cause it can't compete


in all seriousness, the solution is to allow engine swaps into the NA. putting a VVT into an NA is a well established, well documented and cheap and easy solution. 



 


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#31
Jim Drago

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Jim Drago:

>the NA6, built to the rules and driven well, can totally compete. we all just drive NBs because they are newer and prettier
>we should dump the NA into another class cause it can't compete



am i the only one confused here? 

is that the liberal spin? seems intentionally taken out of context to me..  Do you work at CNN?

 

the NA6, built to the rules and driven well, can totally compete. 

agree ( built very well and driven very well, just like the top NB cars)

 

we all just drive NBs because they are newer and prettier

never said or was a complete joke..

I run NB cars as for starters I don't like the 1.6 and I could NEVER make weight and have no interest whatsoever in racing a 30 year old car with antique computer, afm etc 

 

we should dump the NA into another class cause it can't compete

never said this.. I said the 1.6 can not compete with the NB cars in what I proposed ( dropping plates and weights) less serious development and money

but nice try  :shame:


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#32
OrangeCrush86

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Jim Drago:

>the NA6, built to the rules and driven well, can totally compete. we all just drive NBs because they are newer and prettier
>we should dump the NA into another class cause it can't compete

 

 

 

While that is funny, I think the crux of his argument is that NB has restrictor plate ONLY because of NA cars. This is hard to disagree with.

 

You could also chuckle a bit that all Prep shops would support this idea. It would definitely lead to some business for them and the sell price of an NB would undoubtedly be inflated even more. The ironic thing is, if builders could drive cost down a bit on NBs, NAs would eventually disappear because the only reason a person will buy/race an NA car is because it costs 50% less to buy one.


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#33
Jim Drago

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You could also chuckle a bit that all Prep shops would support this idea. It would definitely lead to some business for them and the sell price of an NB would undoubtedly be inflated even more. The ironic thing is, if builders could drive cost down a bit on NBs, NAs would eventually disappear because the only reason a person will buy/race an NA car is because it costs 50% less to buy one.

 

its always a conspiracy...


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#34
OrangeCrush86

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its always a conspiracy...

 

I'll sell you a top flight NA car for $24k. :)


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#35
gerglmuff2

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the operative question was already posted ... who is sitting on the sidelines waiting to get into spec miata save for a couple of extra hp and a few extra pounds? 

answer: no one. no one races this class cause the cars are fast. they race cause its always a race (competition), and cause its fairly cheap. 

also, if the SM8 has slightly less grip as suspected, were gonna be going backwards in laptime either way. and this will likly be a boon for the class as a harder/longer wearing tire is what everyone wants and no one cares about going slightly slower. because again, no one races this class for the speed, they race cause its good competition anywhere you go, and its cheap. making it cheaper will only help things. 




SRF moved to a new engine not because folks wanted faster cars, but because ford stopped making the engine in SRFs, and thus they needed a new motor and source of parts. the weight loss was also due to the new engine being slightly lighter than the old one. 


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#36
Mitch Reading

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Whatever you do.... do NOT split the class.  Keep consistency between HST and regionals... so many love jumping between the two, myself included.  One of the major reasons SM is so great is that there are a ton of venues you can race!  Oh yeah, and we need another class like a hole in the head. 

 

If you do uncork the NB cars, allow the NAs to run the NB subframes.driveline like Kyle said.... essentially a popup headlight NB.  Or there is SSM/vintage for pure NAs. 


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#37
Jim Drago

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Whatever you do.... do NOT split the class.  Keep consistency between HST and regionals... so many love jumping between the two, myself included.  One of the major reasons SM is so great is that there are a ton of venues you can race!  Oh yeah, and we need another class like a hole in the head. 

 

If you do uncork the NB cars, allow the NAs to run the NB subframes.driveline like Kyle said.... essentially a popup headlight NB.  Or there is SSM/vintage for pure NAs. 

 

 

Just so we are clear.. I am not on SMAC or CRB.. I am not and can not doing anything. Just starting a conversation on the site like any one else can :)  There is no secret plan in the works or behind the scenes.. I have not sent in a letter asking for this yet. Just want to discuss and get feedback and ideas


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#38
tjohn67

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If you are in an area that does not have a strong Regional program, or SSM, this makes your car obsolete.  Even the upgrade to a NA6 to the 1.8, if done correctly, is not a cheap undertaking.  Don't know if I agree that it will help the class at all!



#39
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Jim, shortened the list, how about an answer.

 

I have a list of the entries so far this year, added them up and did the math.. if you doubt it, do the math ;)  You have the same info I have

Please provide how to find this list of entries you worked with.


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#40
Jim Drago

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Jim, shortened the list, how about an answer.

 

I gave you one .. all the entries are available and so are the results.. go through those lists as I have and count them :)


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