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It's time for Super Tours unleash the NB cars!

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#41
Pat Mcg

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I agree with Jim, remove NA to regional or whatever sympathy class that has been created to allow them to run.  They got plenty of options.  Basically just donating to the contingency awards anyways. 

 

Take the RP plates out.  Allow some additional unicorn head work.  some nano grease, carbon fiber tubs...   Mazda will definitely support this.

 

Lets do this!



#42
Jim Drago

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I agree with Jim, remove NA to regional or whatever sympathy class that has been created to allow them to run.  They got plenty of options.  Basically just donating to the contingency awards anyways. 

 

Take the RP plates out.  Allow some additional unicorn head work.  some nano grease, carbon fiber tubs...   Mazda will definitely support this.

 

Lets do this!

Well at least you could win the Runoffs as apparently that is all that has been holding you back is that 1.6 that is 2 second a lap slower than the NB cars  :)  


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#43
Nathan Pring

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In general I agree with this 100% .. But SSM in DC region is probably the most successful  Sm program of all or real close (regional, national or Super Tour if you count entries per event)

 

Last 5 MARRS rounds entry numbers for SSM/SM:

 

42 SSM, 19 SM - 7/27/19

47 SSM, 20 SM -  06/15/19

41 SSM, 27 SM - 04/06/19
37 SSM, 20 SM - 10/6/18

44 SSM, 17 SM - 09/01/18

They're smashing it.  If you build it, they will come.  It looks like the organizers were having conversations like this back in 2009 and they've obviously figured it out.  Why re-invent the wheel?


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#44
OrangeCrush86

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Last 5 MARRS rounds entry numbers for SSM/SM:

 

42 SSM, 19 SM - 7/27/19

47 SSM, 20 SM -  06/15/19

41 SSM, 27 SM - 04/06/19
37 SSM, 20 SM - 10/6/18

44 SSM, 17 SM - 09/01/18

They're smashing it.  If you build it, they will come.  It looks like the organizers were having conversations like this back in 2009 and they've obviously figured it out.  Why re-invent the wheel?

 

If you did that in central a field of 18 SM becomes

4 SSM, 14 SM

 

At which point NA's stop showing up or buy a new NB. What works in one region can't translate to every region. SSM looks like an exception to me.


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#45
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It's time to keep our class moving forward.  We need to keep Sm moving forward and keep it growing.

 

 

Jim, I think you should build an NA1.8 for yourself.  This might cure this short term bout of boredom you're experiencing :D.

 

Consider this as it checks off a few of your boxes.

 

These cars run without a restrictor plate.  They run 25 pounds lighter than your VVT.  They make more peak horsepower than your VVT.  You being a leader and top driver/top prep person (intentionally gender neutral for our younger followers) in the class will likely have success which will inspire others to do the same. It's a challenge you haven't taken on in years.  It's the catalyst we need.

 

2020 is just around the corner.


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#46
Nathan Pring

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If you did that in central a field of 18 SM becomes

4 SSM, 14 SM

 

At which point NA's stop showing up or buy a new NB. What works in one region can't translate to every region. SSM looks like an exception to me.

 

True each region differs, but those numbers are assuming no one is buying 1.6s.  I just bought one last year and would be entering it in SSM if there was an SSM, I wouldn't bother putting it up against NB 1.8s, what's the point?  I ran SMSE this year as that's what all the other 1.6s were doing.  I see plenty of 1.6s for sale too, they have to go somewhere and obviously a great deal of them went to MARRS.


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#47
Jim Drago

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Jim, I think you should build an NA1.8 for yourself.  This might cure this short term bout of boredom you're experiencing :D.

 

Consider this as it checks off a few of your boxes.

 

These cars run without a restrictor plate.  They run 25 pounds lighter than your VVT.  They make more peak horsepower than your VVT.  You being a leader and top driver/top prep person (intentionally gender neutral for our younger followers) in the class will likely have success which will inspire others to do the same. It's a challenge you haven't taken on in years.  It's the catalyst we need.

 

2020 is just around the corner.

:)


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#48
gerglmuff2

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Jim, I think you should build an NA1.8 for yourself.  This might cure this short term bout of boredom you're experiencing :D.

 

Consider this as it checks off a few of your boxes.

 

These cars run without a restrictor plate.  They run 25 pounds lighter than your VVT.  They make more peak horsepower than your VVT.  You being a leader and top driver/top prep person (intentionally gender neutral for our younger followers) in the class will likely have success which will inspire others to do the same. It's a challenge you haven't taken on in years.  It's the catalyst we need.

 

2020 is just around the corner.

 

real talk. here it is. 


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#49
Jim Drago

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real talk. here it is. 

hey CNN, you still deflecting? :)


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#50
gerglmuff2

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the operative question was already posted ... who is sitting on the sidelines waiting to get into spec miata save for a couple of extra hp and a few extra pounds? 

answer: no one. no one races this class cause the cars are fast. they race cause its always a race (competition), and cause its fairly cheap. 

also, if the SM8 has slightly less grip as suspected, were gonna be going backwards in laptime either way. and this will likly be a boon for the class as a harder/longer wearing tire is what everyone wants and no one cares about going slightly slower. because again, no one races this class for the speed, they race cause its good competition anywhere you go, and its cheap. making it cheaper will only help things. 




SRF moved to a new engine not because folks wanted faster cars, but because ford stopped making the engine in SRFs, and thus they needed a new motor and source of parts. the weight loss was also due to the new engine being slightly lighter than the old one. 

 

dodging what? 

i said exactly what i think on the subject several times. quoted for your convenience. 


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#51
Jim Drago

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dodging what? 

i said exactly what i think on the subject several times. quoted for your convenience. 

the first BS "quote" of what I said, It was not appreciated and just that complete Bullshit! thus the CNN comment, make shit up and post it as fact


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#52
gerglmuff2

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the first BS "quote" of what I said, It was not appreciated and just that complete Bullshit! thus the CNN comment, make shit up and post it as fact

i think you clarified your positions just fine, i can't add anything to them nor do I think they solve the presented conflict :shrug:

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#53
Alberto

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If NA 1.6s are not allowed to race nationals / super tour / majors / whatevertf it's called and only race regionally, I'd like our entry fees to be lowered so regional racers aren't subsidizing national races. :)


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#54
Tom Hampton

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I'm admitedly biased, since I drive a NA6.  I'm never going to race HST.  I don't have plans to run a majors, but that would really depend on the schedule and location...and my desire to race at a destination.  So, I'd be dissapointed if this change took that off the table, but not overly so. 

 

OTOH, I'd be VERY dissapointed if this impacted regional race car-counts.  I guess that would depend on how easy it was to change the car config back for the regional rule-set. 

 

This thread is SCCA centric.  I *think* the class has alsoo benefitted from maintaining a "mostly" common rule-set between NASA and SCCA.  Historically in TX, thre was significant cross-over between the orgs.  I'm not sure about this year, or other regions of the country.  I don't think that competition between orgs, regions, or events is good for class growth.  If someone has to choose between things (for schedule, access, or rulesets) then someone loses.  eventually, either everyone ends up in ONE PLACE, and ALL OTHERS die...or it ends up fractured...and everyone loses. 

 

This class has been very successful for a very long time.  I think that success has been in large part due to the commonality across the spectrum of events (from regionals to Runoffs); and the perception of affordability.  It may only be a preception, but it still works (I think).  You can get into the class, and go race for pretty damn cheap.  You might be BOP, but there's someone else BOP to race.  You can move up the ranks with skill or cash (or both)....and maybe you decide to go all-in, eventually.  My little homebuilt 1.6 is a pretty damn good car with the X-factor engine---a hell of a lot better than its driver.   I told Chris I'd discuss an NB, when he honestly could tell me that my NA6 was holding me back---I'm still waiting. 

 

But, what defines the health of the class?  HST entries? Regional entries?  NASA? SCCA?   I can't disagree with the premise that change may be advisable to continue to entice new/more blood.  I'm not sure this would achieve that outcome.  We already fight reliability issues with these cars at their current HP/TQ and speeds.  I'm not sure how increasing all of those would improve the reliability without addressing most of the weak-points of the car---all of which equates to increased cost. 

 

SSM and all the other splinters have never worked here in TX.  At one point SSM ballooned up to like 6 cars.  They started mixed in with the SM cars.  Other than just to get tires, I couldn't figure out why I should convert to a slower config.  I wanted to race everyone heads-up, not handicapped. 

 

 

That's a lot of shotgun thoughts.  I need to think about it more to arrange them into something more cogent. 


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#55
LarryKing

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If gerglmuff is CNN, does that mean JD is Fox News?

(No offense but I'm still trying to figure out what a gerglmuff is. It sounds vaguely porny.)
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#56
Danny Steyn

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Personally, in recent weeks I have found the NA 1.8 to be pretty damn good and competitive - winning almost all the races I have run, beating a National champ in a pretty stout car in two of them (OK so he ran out of gas in one!  :hugegrin: ). 

 

And apart from the increase in expense, faster car, faster wear and tear, faster crashes etc, I do want to be able to run regionals and HST without having to change the car (add weight / restrictor / retune etc). No matter how I look at it I see the costs going up which will ultimately reduce numbers, not the end game we are chasing.

 

On a side note to all, adding political bias on either side to this discussion does nothing to move it forward, but it does a lot to derail it. Surely finding common ground is the long game......


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#57
Jim Drago

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If gerglmuff is CNN, does that mean JD is Fox News?
 

I watch them all, but sign me up as a Fox news guy sure. 

 Mornings I actually watch Robin Mead which is HNN part of CNN , left slanting but not much political BS. Besides she has a great personality and easy on the eyes.  

 

Another side note:

 

Watch "the Loudest Voice" 7 part series on Roger Ailes and Fox news. Russel crow plays Roger Ailes. It is REALLY good, creepy as hell, but really good. 


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#58
Mitch Reading

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Off topic but yeah, we're into Loudest Voice too Jim.  Next watch 'The Great Hack' on Netflix.  ...enjoy the thought provoking stuff from either side. 


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#59
TylerQuance

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If we are going to have even an ounce more power, we need to switch to 6-speeds.

 

The 5-speeds are trash. I consume 3-4 per year due to 3rd gear blowing up.


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#60
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Awe, how about switching to the  BWM transmission the ChampCar folks are using with Miata engines, bullet proof they claim.  :rockband:  


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