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#41
Caveman-kwebb99

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He seems to have ran a decent race. Kudos to him.

 

Not sure about timing of that start, and if passing by off road excursion is legal where it's hard to say if he was four off, but it certainly answered my questions about how he gained so many spots.

 

Either way I counted 7 gained on the start and that still beats what I managed to luck out with so good for him. Nice drive.

 

 

I think what he did was ok once he was over there and went into the grass nobody gave him a path back.  But how many times have we seen that kind of move on a start destroy a whole group of cars that had done nothing to deserve being wrecked out. 


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#42
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I think what he did was ok once he was over there and went into the grass nobody gave him a path back.  But how many times have we seen that kind of move on a start destroy a whole group of cars that had done nothing to deserve being wrecked out. 

 

It's one thing to be forced into the grass to avoid a wreck...that's not what happened in that video.  Glad it worked out for all of us back there.


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#43
Jim Drago

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I think what he did was ok once he was over there and went into the grass nobody gave him a path back.  But how many times have we seen that kind of move on a start destroy a whole group of cars that had done nothing to deserve being wrecked out. 

I couldn't disagree more. There was nothing"OK" in that start. He jeopardized 20 plus cars and was very lucky it ended up the way that it did.  And for what? He started like he missed all three qualifying sessions and had the car and the ability to win if he only made the best start ever.  I'm all for good starts, but IMO, that was over the top and dangerous. Maybe I am getting too old for this stuff :)


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#44
Caveman-kwebb99

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He clearly has a radio... He probably got the green green green and went right down the middle till there was no where to go and then goes two wheels in the grass, which seems to turn into 3 or 4 wheels off at the little kink.

I personally don't see anything agreegous but you are right it could have ended up horribly.

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#45
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Here's a rule that covers passing with 4 wheels off.  You could argue this rule was violated by the camera car.

 

6.11.3. Off-Course Excursions
Drivers are required to follow the pavement or marked course, and may not gain an advantage from an offcourse
excursion. Unless the Supplemental Regulations specify otherwise, a driver who leaves an artificially
marked course or an airport circuit with all four wheels must reenter the course at the same location where
he went off, subject to the directions of officials controlling reentry.

 

After reading this, it seems to me that the rule could be improved to cover starts and should also differentiate between improving one's position while 4 wheels off and simply going 4 wheels off and re-entering further down the course without gaining any positions.  In our class many of us are guilty at one time or another of going 4 off and re-entering down the course and never is it questioned or penalized.  Seems like we aren't following our own rules at times. The reference to "airport circuit" is an indication of how old and outdated this rule is.

 

No way IMO that what that camera car did should be legal and yes it could have resulted in big wreck. 


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#46
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He got a good jump, and matted it. There did not seem to be anywhere else to go, and I think he was in the middle of it pretty quick. Sure he could have lifted, and fallen in somewhere maybe, not sure, hell that probably would have been real ugly. But he "stayed in it" and it worked. Not any more egregious than going two off going down to Canada 3 wide at 115, or the move P$ made up the esses fighting for position in my opinion. It doesn't always work out and sometimes turns out badly but it is racing. 99% of the drivers I have encountered in SM have zero intention of messing up anyone's drive, but it happens.  Mid pack can be ugly and dumb and an easy place to see faults without a doubt. I know, I have made plenty of them, and done my share of apologizing, but he pulled it off this time. Just like Preston pulled off that sick ass run up the hill, GOOD NIGHT THAT WAS AWESOME. Yeah, I know there is big gap between us Larrys and the tip of the spear, but the path toward the top 20 or 10 or whatever takes risks in actual races to learn from. Often times they can not be calculated and they just happen and you go with it. Retrospect and input helps. It is how we get faster, better, and make wiser decisions. 

 

Great Drive Jesse Singer 


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#47
Bailey Sigler

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"He got a good jump, and matted it. There did not seem to be anywhere else to go, and I think he was in the middle of it pretty quick. Sure he could have lifted, and fallen in somewhere maybe, not sure, hell that probably would have been real ugly. But he "stayed in it" and it worked. Not any more egregious than going two off going down to Canada 3 wide at 115, or the move P$ made up the esses fighting for position in my opinion. It doesn't always work out and sometimes turns out badly but it is racing. 99% of the drivers I have encountered in SM have zero intention of messing up anyone's drive, but it happens.  Mid pack can be ugly and dumb and an easy place to see faults without a doubt. I know, I have made plenty of them, and done my share of apologizing, but he pulled it off this time. Just like Preston pulled off that sick ass run up the hill, GOOD NIGHT THAT WAS AWESOME. Yeah, I know there is big gap between us Larrys and the tip of the spear, but the path toward the top 20 or 10 or whatever takes risks in actual races to learn from. Often times they can not be calculated and they just happen and you go with it. Retrospect and input helps. It is how we get faster, better, and make wiser decisions. 

 

Great Drive Jesse Singer"

 

I would have to to completely disagree, take it for the two cents it is worth...I started 51st (the row in-front of him) and he had passed at least three cars before I was told over the radio 'Green'.  I will work on posting my video to YouTube.  I find it hard to believe that he could pass three cars before my crew could call the 'Green'...As for the pass in the the grass I am one of the folks that would have been taken out had it gone negative, having seen many wrecks happen right there because of that exact move, i was not a big fan.


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#48
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There was quite the slinky effect in back of the pack and I had to hit my brakes twice to avoid contact before the green flag so I imagine he jumped the start when confirmed by your observation. With the questionable (at best) off course excursion pass I'm glad all worked out safely for everyone. 

 

He still ran much better lap times than in qualifying so cheers to him as the rest of the race looked rather normal although only 5 people ran faster times Saturday versus qualifying, and of those 5, 4 had less than quarter second improvements.  https://i.imgur.com/mGAtKI9.png


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#49
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Watching his video, he seems to physically start the race (presume he knew green waived) when others were thinking about starting the race. Could have gone south in a hurry. 

 

Totally agree rule posted above, 2 or 4 wheels in grass need to be locked down before senseless crash costs. If forced into grass, worker call should be made and forced off driver may plead case after race.


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#50
DrDomm

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... only 5 people ran faster times Saturday versus qualifying, and of those 5, 4 had less than quarter second improvements.  https://i.imgur.com/mGAtKI9.png

 

This is a point I wanted to bring up...just out of curiosity.  Why were the "quick" cars so much slower in the race?  I watched videos, and there were laps that seemed to be clean and cooperative.  The added 18-20lbs of fuel doesn't really equate to 2 seconds.  I don't remember the weather or the track being significantly different?  Thoughts?


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#51
DrDomm

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Watching his video, he seems to physically start the race (presume he knew green waived) when others were thinking about starting the race. Could have gone south in a hurry. 

 

Totally agree rule posted above, 2 or 4 wheels in grass need to be locked down before senseless crash costs. If forced into grass, worker call should be made and forced off driver may plead case after race.

 

My interpretation of his video, combined with my memory, is that he laid back a little and was rolling 5+ mph faster than the cars ahead when we all got the "green" call on the radio.

 

I did watch all of his videos, and think he drove the rest of the race very nicely.  He hit his marks in turn 1.  His car seemed to handle well, especially at Oak Tree.  He didn't seem to have more power than those he was racing with.  I was surprised to see him stay in 5th gear thru South Bend.  

 

He just needs to get that carpal tunnel fixed.


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#52
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My interpretation of his video, combined with my memory, is that he laid back a little and was rolling 5+ mph faster than the cars ahead when we all got the "green" call on the radio. This Larry has made similar up the middle moves at the green a few times for position gains, only this Larry looses the positions right back. Not sleeping at the start switch accounts for a lot. :bigsquaregrin: 

 

 

He just needs to get that carpal tunnel fixed. When I watched I presumed he had a new hand twitch for Danny. :scratchchin:


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#53
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At some point.. common sense and respect of your competitors and their cars need to factor into the equation.  We have all made stupid decisions and damaged others cars unintentionally.  It sucks!  My opinion is when you make a start like that, there is a blatant disregard for all others on the track.  That is my issue with the start.  The risk vs reward  ratio in that move was off the charts risk for little reward.  Pulling it off may have even made it worse as he may be encouraged to do it again and the next time the results will likely be more like what we all expected to see in this one.  It also appears he jumped the start if the posts above are correct.  Just a bad decision from start to finish IMO that luckily worked out well. 


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#54
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This is a point I wanted to bring up...just out of curiosity.  Why were the "quick" cars so much slower in the race?  I watched videos, and there were laps that seemed to be clean and cooperative.  The added 18-20lbs of fuel doesn't really equate to 2 seconds.  I don't remember the weather or the track being significantly different?  Thoughts?

 

I'll let someone who can actually drive answer this, but I assume heat, position protection, and maybe tire management factored in? Though 2 seconds seems like a lot as there were plenty of cooperative laps with Jim/Todd working together without fear of fending off the person behind you. The later laps are probably less comparable given tire degradation and fatigue.


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#55
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I'll let someone who can actually drive answer this, but I assume heat, position protection, and maybe tire management factored in? Though 2 seconds seems like a lot as there were plenty of cooperative laps with Jim/Todd working together without fear of fending off the person behind you. The later laps are probably less comparable given tire degradation and fatigue.

I think we were all a little baffled as well.  I fully expected to be running low to mid 15's .  It was not for lack of trying. :) Todd was a tick conservative the first few laps, but certainly not that conservative, maybe like .5.  All sub 15 laps I saw were were cars pushing and closing a gap with air from cars from the front.  perhaps some f it was racing and positioning, but not all. So the short answer.. I really don't know. 


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#56
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I think what he did was ok once he was over there and went into the grass nobody gave him a path back.  But how many times have we seen that kind of move on a start destroy a whole group of cars that had done nothing to deserve being wrecked out. 

Great run at the NASA Champs my friend.  Us P3's need to stick together!

 

 

Not sure why anyone would be expected to let the guy back on the track.  Its one thing to drop a tire or to have a run on someone to then move over on you and force you off.  To use the grass as a passing lane, especially on a start, especially at this track.....  not cool.  What if someone didn't see him coming and just before the kink they needed to move to the right to edge of track.  He hits the wall takes out 10 cars, ruins the race for 58 competitors and makes Spec Miata look like Spec Pinata.  

 

Watch how much room and respect Preston gives others during his video.  You don't have to put yourself and others in danger to make a charge to the front.  Preston made it past 7 of the best drivers in the country without "hero" moves.  

 

Not picking on you Kyle, just wanted to say congrats and chime in on the subject.  I really should have put this on Senters post.  


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#57
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There was quite the slinky effect in back of the pack and I had to hit my brakes twice to avoid contact before the green flag so I imagine he jumped the start when confirmed by your observation. With the questionable (at best) off course excursion pass I'm glad all worked out safely for everyone. 

 

He still ran much better lap times than in qualifying so cheers to him as the rest of the race looked rather normal although only 5 people ran faster times Saturday versus qualifying, and of those 5, 4 had less than quarter second improvements.  https://i.imgur.com/mGAtKI9.png

His car looked very normal, his driving indicated he was still learning the track and was learning from the people in front of him.  Also, if he was driving by himself in qual that could equate to about 2 seconds of delta. 


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#58
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Here is an egregious use of the grass to make some places at VIR, that didnt work out so well


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#59
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#60
Jim Drago

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Here is an egregious use of the grass to make some places at VIR, that didnt work out so well

 

 

copy and paste after ****       ****https://youtu.be/r0BaECxaTJk


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