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#41
Tom Sager

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Here is a Blackstone oil report from my '95.  This is from oil that was from a relatively fresh engine rebuild, hours approx 2-7.  Previous to this I sent in a sample of the initial break-in oil.  The results of that analysis were frightening.  Very high levels of metals and other compounds.  It caused genuine concern but after speaking to engine builder and another experienced SM engine builder, both told me the same thing.  Don't be concerned with how break in oil looks.  Break in oil itself has a lot of extra "stuff" in it and the oil picks up all the assembly lube and other break in chemicals and initial rebuild/break-in seating wear. 

 

At that point I changed the oil, did some dyno and track time and sent in a sample of the 2nd oil from the engine.  Huge improvement in the numbers which is an indication that it's healthy and that the previous advice was spot on.  Will probably sample oil change #3 but really don't intend to do this too often.  The test is cheap about $30.

 

Here's the report for anyone that hasn't seen one before.  Oil is Mobil 1 Racing.

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#42
FTodaro

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Here is a Blackstone oil report from my '95.  This is from oil that was from a relatively fresh engine rebuild, hours approx 2-7.  Previous to this I sent in a sample of the initial break-in oil.  The results of that analysis were frightening.  Very high levels of metals and other compounds.  It caused genuine concern but after speaking to engine builder and another experienced SM engine builder, both told me the same thing.  Don't be concerned with how break in oil looks.  Break in oil itself has a lot of extra "stuff" in it and the oil picks up all the assembly lube and other break in chemicals and initial rebuild/break-in seating wear. 

 

At that point I changed the oil, did some dyno and track time and sent in a sample of the 2nd oil from the engine.  Huge improvement in the numbers which is an indication that it's healthy and that the previous advice was spot on.  Will probably sample oil change #3 but really don't intend to do this too often.  The test is cheap about $30.

 

Here's the report for anyone that hasn't seen one before.  Oil is Mobil 1 Racing.

Also if the oil your testing is relatively fresh it will not reveal much of what is going on unless the motor has serious problems.


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#43
Steve Scheifler

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Yep, no time to accumulate indicative contaminants.
And again, my interest at the moment is in the condition of the oil itself in terms of breakdown and reduced viscosity and ability to do its job, and if it’s substantially damaged, why.
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#44
Brandon

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That is a very frequent oil change interval. Lots of great info on the Joe Gibbs racing Driven Oil website. The big boys change their filters quite often, but not their oil. All those oil $s could be spent at the bar.

 

 

 

On the engine that came with my car (crate motor with ~500 miles on it) with a similar racing schedule, I had been using the Gibbs product and following their OCI process: change filter, drain another half quart to make a full, refill to proper level.

I'd then send off a sample of that oil for analysis.

 

Blackstone noted there was nothing untoward happening with the oil and the process would appear to be working as intended.

 

And sadly, with my tastes in alcohol, even saving the whole oil change would only get me two drinks.


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#45
Brandon

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A guy I know and trust told me to wear shark repellent whenever I swim at Lake of the Ozarks; hasn’t failed me yet! :)

I doubt you can find anyone racing an SM who has ever had an engine failure attributable to insufficient oil change frequency, so that’s not really supportive. Wear rates indicated by the oil analysis on the other hand could suggest whether or not it’s changed too infrequently.

 

You're misapplying my reference to the builder's expertise to his proscribed maintenance interval: none of his engines have blown up and that has not been due to maintenance but his talent, skill, and experience.

 

His experience in building and tearing down the engines he's built, backed with the UOA, validates his maintenance interval.


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#46
Jim Drago

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I change my engine oil every other weekend which is likely twice as often as really needed.  I change trans /diff every third weekend on my car, every other on cars we are maintaining.  Thats more than enough as well.  I agree with Steve in that the oil breaking down is not really an issue.  It doesn't hurt to change more often or to get it tested either.  I suppose its possible to catch bearing wear before a failure.

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#47
MPR22

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You're misapplying my reference to the builder's expertise to his proscribed maintenance interval: none of his engines have blown up and that has not been due to maintenance but his talent, skill, and experience.

 

His experience in building and tearing down the engines he's built, backed with the UOA, validates his maintenance interval.

If he has never blown up an engine then he is likely not pushing the envelope.  He is building enduro engines not sprint engines. Just an observation. At most he is leaving 1.0-2.0 on the table which is a great trade off for the reliability for 99% of the SM community. 


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#48
Dave D.

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If he has never blown up an engine then he is likely not pushing the envelope.  He is building enduro engines not sprint engines. Just an observation. At most he is leaving 1.0-2.0 on the table which is a great trade off for the reliability for 99% of the SM community. 

I don't think so.....This particular builder's engines may not be as well known as some, but are in a few up front HST cars.......



#49
MPR22

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I don't think so.....This particular builder's engines may not be as well known as some, but are in a few up front HST cars.......

Then he should get some pub instead of everyone being cryptic about his identity.  


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#50
Steve Scheifler

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You're misapplying my reference to the builder's expertise to his proscribed maintenance interval: none of his engines have blown up and that has not been due to maintenance but his talent, skill, and experience.

His experience in building and tearing down the engines he's built, backed with the UOA, validates his maintenance interval.


Guilty on the first part, just yanking your chain. I haven’t seen the engines he’s torn down or his particular UOA results, but I’d be very comfortable betting against him providing adequate evidence to support a meaningful benefit from that schedule over doubling it or even more. Very comfortable. Unless typical oil temps are very high (not impossible) or something causing abnormal levels of contamination (then that’s the issue to address) it simply defies logic. Again, my comments pertain to our cars and engines, not all race cars.
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#51
Richard Astacio

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Then he should get some pub instead of everyone being cryptic about his identity.  

 

Sounds like Matt Kessler to me. 


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#52
William Keeling

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I change my engine oil every other weekend which is likely twice as often as really needed.  I change trans /diff every third weekend on my car, every other on cars we are maintaining.  Thats more than enough as well.  I agree with Steve in that the oil breaking down is not really an issue.  It doesn't hurt to change more often or to get it tested either.  I suppose its possible to catch bearing wear before a failure.

jim 

I guess I will slow down -- do engine and diff every weekend and trans every other


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#53
Brandon

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Sounds like Matt Kessler to me. 

 

And you would be right.


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#54
Brandon

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Guilty on the first part, just yanking your chain. I haven’t seen the engines he’s torn down or his particular UOA results, but I’d be very comfortable betting against him providing adequate evidence to support a meaningful benefit from that schedule over doubling it or even more. Very comfortable. Unless typical oil temps are very high (not impossible) or something causing abnormal levels of contamination (then that’s the issue to address) it simply defies logic. Again, my comments pertain to our cars and engines, not all race cars.

 

No one is doubting or questioning your experience or assertion. However, Kessler's has been extensive across multiple types of manufacturers and the various configurations (inline, vee, flat) for at least a couple decades.

 

To reiterate: I'm not spending thousands of dollars to question someone's experience or knowledge about these engines. That doesn't mean I'll stand on one leg and jump up and down while adding the magic oil combination but to go counter to the person who measured and inspected not just yours, but thousands of other engines and the wear characteristics and tolerances of their builds, seems like a quick and easy way to flush a significant investment.

 

If you're building engines and have an OCI that you have evidence to support, then have at it. I'll congratulate you on finding something that works for you and wish you the best outcome in the future with your engines.


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#55
wreckerboy

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Sounds like Matt Kessler to me. 

 

And you would be right.

 

The reality is just that none of us want to piss Kessler off... :lol:


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#56
Richard Astacio

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The reality is just that none of us want to piss Kessler off... :lol:

 

Matt is always pissed off anyways. :) 


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