187 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

Should SCCA offer a 10min tire scrub session?

Maybe warm up the track for Morning Practice Session.
J~

[dmathias]

East/West thing? Are you serious? Hardly anyone in the GreatLakes runs Nationals lately.

What, does Mid-Ohio have special asphalt - is the pavement in Ohio somehow different than the rest of the free world?

I live in a rural area - I wonder if I could scrub-in tires on the county roads without killing myself/someone else, or incurring the wrath of the sherif.

[dmathias]

Should SCCA offer a 10min tire scrub session?

What do the other Hoosier-shod classes do?

[Johnny D]

All tires, all classes. I got some Hankooks.
Maybe a sign up sheet someplace.
If nobody signs up after a while, they don't have it that day.

If everyone is running at the beginning "SOOOO SLOW" it shouldn't be a problem then.
J~

[James York]

Should SCCA offer a 10min tire scrub session?

Maybe warm up the track for Morning Practice Session.
J~

No way. More time groups are on/off just waste time.

A couple of options:

1) Cycle tires on a test day. Note tire cycling could be shared with one entry and multiple drivers tires. Find someone you trust and let them cycle your tires if you can't or don't want to. I have done this for people before when they can't make it to the track.

2) Cycle tires in another run group. Might be careful with this not to draw the wrath of fellow competitors by getting in the way of their qualifying flyer. Using track awareness it's possible.

[Johnny D]

Yep.
J~

Ya, I'm thinking 6~8 min warm up on whatever new tire, NASCAR pit stop and go back out on what tires I'm going to Qual on, in whatever time I have left to get to temp and then set.

Even easier if you're only breaking in one set and running to classes.
J~

I didn't know this process and think some others didn't either.
I'm going to do it but I'm not running a new set for every race so I'll be done for a while.
I don't have any crew so it a PITA but I'm not doing a track day so I gotta do what I gotta do.
It will save me money in the long run I'll do it.

Unless SCCA lets us run in another run group, knowing that we're going to come off track after a few laps,
Pretty please SCCA

It's sad that the guy on a budget that only has one set, not knowing this, maybe screwing them up and have s shorter tire life because he has to use them next.
J~

And we get the Bozo that goes off and we get a FCC.
There's always newbies, maybe they will feel good about passing us.
Your call, Track day, Tirerack, or use them up faster.
J~

[Sphinx]

Years ago, when I crewed for a national champion, we did it this way. Saturday: 1st Qualifier on last week's tires. 2nd Qualifier on stickers. Sunday: race on the stickers that have been sitting overnight.

This poses a problem where you qualify and race on the same day and/or the 2nd qualifier is actually a race.

[Jim Boemler]

A couple of options:

1) Cycle tires on a test day. Note tire cycling could be shared with one entry and multiple drivers tires. Find someone you trust and let them cycle your tires if you can't or don't want to. I have done this for people before when they can't make it to the track.

2) Cycle tires in another run group. Might be careful with this not to draw the wrath of fellow competitors by getting in the way of their qualifying flyer. Using track awareness it's possible.

Option 1 could have a serious effect on overall tire cost. Out here at least, virtually no one takes a test day unless they're doing real serious testing -- it's just too expensive. You might be able to do it once in a while, but not on a regular basis.

Option 2 isn't going to be tolerated by the Club. The other group paid for their track time, and they're not going to allow others to share it without paying for it. We'd scream if another group tried it on our time, and so will they.

[AJ Roderick]

What, does Mid-Ohio have special asphalt - is the pavement in Ohio somehow different than the rest of the free world?

yes. yes it is.

[Zauskycop]

Do what autocrossers have been doing for years.

A. Find a local Miata friend who will borrow you his car that is street legal (MR2's work too. Hondas also, but I prefer RWD...)
B. Take said vehicle to a large parking lot with Hoosiers on
C. 8 circles slow one way, 8 the other...pick up speed and do 8 more each way...repeat one more time and feel tires. If HOT, you are done. Or else repeat one more time.
D. Return home with beer for your friend.

[James York]

Option 1 could have a serious effect on overall tire cost. Out here at least, virtually no one takes a test day unless they're doing real serious testing -- it's just too expensive. You might be able to do it once in a while, but not on a regular basis.

Option 2 isn't going to be tolerated by the Club. The other group paid for their track time, and they're not going to allow others to share it without paying for it. We'd scream if another group tried it on our time, and so will they.

Ok Mr. Negative, are you always looking for the bad in everything?.......

I don't know what test days run out west, but I have paid $150 to $400 depending on the venue. Split that up between the drivers and maybe it's $50 to $100 per person.

Regarding option two, I didn't say run it for free. The expectation is that you would PAY to enter that group. We have done that to get more test time too.

Nobody said racing/testing etc was FREE or CHEAP. I was just suggesting some maybe more costs effective solutions for folks to consider.

Since this is the thread about National specing Hoosier tires, nobody's got a choice if they wish to run. You can cycle them or not, but if you run SM Nationals, you will run a Hoosier on 1/1/12 regardless. Personally, I'll probably hit up a track day (or test day before some regional) and cycle a few sets for next year.

[dmathias]

8 circles slow one way, 8 the other...pick up speed and do 8 more each way...repeat one more time and feel tires. If HOT, you are done. Or else repeat one more time.

I love this idea. I keep my SM registered so I don't have to borrow a Miata. I can even use my pyrometer for this. I know just the parking lot.

Gump, you're a damn genius!

[Jim Boemler]

Ok Mr. Negative, are you always looking for the bad in everything?.......

Not at all. And for the record I would LOVE to be racing on real race tires. There are both sides, however, and ignoring the downsides doesn't make them go away.

Paying to enter another group "may" work. The local club may or may not let you enter a group where you don't meet the class specs.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

JB
That is no different what most do on Toyos now? I take a new set of Toyos out session one on test day, scrub them, let them sit until Sunday, qualify and race with them? I am so excited that there is a PDX the week before the Runoffs here in Memphis as I can scrub three sets of Toyos and actual practice on my $450 test day at Road America, for both of my twenty minute traffic filled sessions.

One other thing, unfortunately many are offering Hoosier advice or finding are in great Lakes, If that experience is at Mid Ohio, I think it is worthless. It is a one off.
What I think we are seeing... If you run new Toyos at Mid Ohio, they will absolutely grain and be destroyed in a few sessions. Most either know this or don't buy many new tires, so they show up with the correct tire by accident. While I have not run Hoosiers there, imagine from general knowledge and track experience, you could shred a new Hoosier just as easily, maybe more so. But in any event, YOU HAVE TO CYCLE WHATEVER TIRE YOU RUN AT MID OHIO.

Jim

Jim, is correct in the innitial cycling. I failed to mention that in my prior comments. I do this with all new tires! I do not put on new tires and keep them on for more than 1 session of 15 minutes or so. Mid Ohio over heats your new tires very fast and pills up the tread badly, while a place like Watkins Glen, almost shows no appreciable wear on tires from my limited experience there. Even Ra1's that are cycled can be used up at Mid Ohio very fast if you do not rotate and swap out tires over say a full double national weekend. This is even worse if you do not have your car setup correctly for the track.

I have 3 sets of spec miata wheels and an extra set with rains. I got half of this season on a set of tires I had from last year, (those tires started as 3/32) the other two sets were worn out.

The reason you are seeing alot of info on hoosiers from Great Lakes is our region is open tire in SM, so we have been useing them for a while. As far as I can tell there is nothing not to like about the hoosiers. I would hope that NASA eventually follows suit.

[James York]

Not at all. And for the record I would LOVE to be racing on real race tires. There are both sides, however, and ignoring the downsides doesn't make them go away.

Paying to enter another group "may" work. The local club may or may not let you enter a group where you don't meet the class specs.

Well it doesn't matter about "two "sides". Tire choice is not open for debate.

Your choice is: 1) Get a set of Hoosiers however prepped you want, or 2) Don't race any SCCA nationally sanctioned SM races in 2012.

So you can dwell on the perceived downsides all you want but it is not going to change anything.

Regarding running with other groups, read your GCR. It works just fine.

[Den]

Denny,

You gotta tell me where that parking lot you have in mind is!

Den

[wheel]

You will all love Hoosier. The tires are all made in Indiana by Indians. Wait, that's not right, all our call centers are manned by Indians. Hoosiers are made by Hoosiers. You can call Hoosier Racing Tire and actually talk to somebody who knows what a Spec Miata is. Bruce Foss, (I can't remember his title, but he is a high mucky muck that you will see at many race tracks) is also known as Eric Foss' uncle. Anybody who races SM knows who Eric is. Anyway, great tires, made by Indianans (aka Hoosiers - I know you all saw the movie - Dennis Hopper's best, not to mention Gene Hackman, a fellow racer). I should never post after martinis.
wheel

[ChrisA]

I should never post after martinis.
wheel

Love a good martini!

[Jim Boemler]

Well it doesn't matter about "two "sides". Tire choice is not open for debate.

Your choice is: 1) Get a set of Hoosiers however prepped you want, or 2) Don't race any SCCA nationally sanctioned SM races in 2012.

So you can dwell on the perceived downsides all you want but it is not going to change anything.

Regarding running with other groups, read your GCR. It works just fine.

I checked the GCR, but I couldn't find any reference to cars running in classes other than where they're legal. Can you point me to a paragraph?

I never said you have a choice. Obviously those running Nationals have to abide by the National rules. There is still a cost to the rules -- in this case, buying an extra set of tires so you can let them sit for a week after scrubbing, and dedicating a session each weekend to that scrubbing. I apologize if that fact doesn't fit into your happy-talk world.

[Keith Novak]

Jim,
I have seen a few cars running in other run groups on occasion, much to my confusion. What I've heard (but never officially asked at driver services) is that for $50 you can get into an additional out of class session in the OR region. I don't know if they give special dispensation to special people but I'm sure I'll be checking this out next year. We do have another potentially complicating factor that it could be a couple months into the season before it's dry enough to actually put a heat cycle on dry tires.