187 replies to this topic

[James York]

I checked the GCR, but I couldn't find any reference to cars running in classes other than where they're legal. Can you point me to a paragraph?

I never said you have a choice. Obviously those running Nationals have to abide by the National rules. There is still a cost to the rules -- in this case, buying an extra set of tires so you can let them sit for a week after scrubbing, and dedicating a session each weekend to that scrubbing. I apologize if that fact doesn't fit into your happy-talk world.

You can read the GCR and find another class that a MIATA can fit in. You keep thinking I am talking about some exception to the rules.

Also, never said racing is cheap. Basically, said it serves no purpose to get worked up since there is nothing to debate. Doesn't matter the cost (percieved or real), Hoosier is the tire next year. To heat cycle Hoosiers in a method described by Hoosier will take at least two sets of tires and most likely two sets of wheels, no doubt. In the end you still have the options I listed. Bring your tires the way you want, cycled or not, 1 set or two; or not race. Period.

To sum up two facts which is all I am saying. 1) A Miata can enter another class other than SM. 2) No matter what it cost or how much of a pain it is (real or percieved), Hoosier is the SCCA SM spec tire for 2012. Nothing more or less.

[Jim Boemler]

Interesting, Keith. Why don't you ask at the next race, and post the results? In a 20-minute practice session, two teams might be able to put together enough crew and such to scrub a set for each car (using only one of the cars). It'll all fall apart if they do no-practice days, though. Or, maybe not. Maybe some of the fast guys will have the confidence to go out and qualify for a few laps, then come in and scrub another driver's tires. Maybe we'll see professional pit teams that can service several drivers in a session, so they can qualify and then scrub next week's tires in the same session. Maybe 8-man pit crews will become commonplace in SM? Maybe we'll all do test days, much to the delight of Pro-Drive and Proformance?

The possibilities are endless!

[Dave Metz]

Ummm. They're just tires... Ok. You and eleven other drivers each send me a set of tires/wheels and $100... I'll load 'em up, take them to a track day at Nelson Ledges and heat cycle them all for you!

[Jim Boemler]

That sounds great, Dave!

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Interesting, Keith. Why don't you ask at the next race, and post the results? In a 20-minute practice session, two teams might be able to put together enough crew and such to scrub a set for each car (using only one of the cars). It'll all fall apart if they do no-practice days, though. Or, maybe not. Maybe some of the fast guys will have the confidence to go out and qualify for a few laps, then come in and scrub another driver's tires. Maybe we'll see professional pit teams that can service several drivers in a session, so they can qualify and then scrub next week's tires in the same session. Maybe 8-man pit crews will become commonplace in SM? Maybe we'll all do test days, much to the delight of Pro-Drive and Proformance?

The possibilities are endless!

I honestly don't understand why you are going on about this. The procedure is not that different from what should be done today with the RA1's. Plus, having a set of tires to heat cycle doesn't really change the total amount of money you are likely to spend on tires over the course of a year. It just changes the timing a little bit. I am not even at the pointy end, more like the tail end of the fast guys and I still find it necessary to have a set of sticker tires to be competitive today.

My only concern with this whole thing is crossover from SCCA to NASA. This whole, which tire what group is using is over rated. Regardless of whether they are they greatest tire or the crappiest, we are all in the same boat, just deal with it. Racing isn't cheap and being competitive is far from cheap. If you aren't fast, just run the tires out of the box and forget about heat cycling them. Chances are your driving is going to make a bigger difference in lap times than the tires will.

[Randy Thieme]

Jim,
I have seen a few cars running in other run groups on occasion, much to my confusion. What I've heard (but never officially asked at driver services) is that for $50 you can get into an additional out of class session in the OR region. I don't know if they give special dispensation to special people but I'm sure I'll be checking this out next year. We do have another potentially complicating factor that it could be a couple months into the season before it's dry enough to actually put a heat cycle on dry tires.

Yep, OR allows that. I don't know about other regions. Just the practice session. Not sure but I think the group has to be one your car would normally be allowed in anyways.

[Jim Boemler]

I honestly don't understand why you are going on about this. The procedure is not that different from what should be done today with the RA1's. Plus, having a set of tires to heat cycle doesn't really change the total amount of money you are likely to spend on tires over the course of a year. It just changes the timing a little bit.

I'm not "going on about this". We're having a discussion, and I've been bringing up aspects that annoy those with rose-colored glasses. To keep anyone on the forum from dealing with any kind of mixed feelings, I hereby swear to the Warm Fuzzy Oath:

• Hoosiers will be the best thing to happpen to SM. They'll cost less, last longer, make every driver a hero, and bring you a beer after every race.
• The check really is in the mail.
• We're in the middle of a great economic recovery.

Kumbaya!

[Ken SM94]

Jim, you had me until #3. Now I think you were just being sarcastic.

[Jim Boemler]

That makes you two slower than I gave you credit for, Ken!

Good to hear from you again, BTW. What's your own racing situation these days, and next year?

[Motor City Hamilton]

JB

One other thing, unfortunately many are offering Hoosier advice or finding are in great Lakes, If that experience is at Mid Ohio, I think it is worthless. It is a one off.


Jim

If you are referencing me Jim, then go ahead and add Gingerman, Grattan, Waterford Hills and Nelson Ledges to the list of tracks where I race and love the Hoosier performance. I hated the Toyo everywhere except for Mid Ohio. The Hoosier is equal at Mid O and a step up at all of the other tracks.

People are just going to have to try a set instead of projecting what it's going to be like, from hearsay.

[NV Racer]

With RA-1's we paid to have them shaved at $15 per tire. If you are unable to find a way to cycle your tires before you run them Tirerack.com for one will heat cycle them for you at $15 per tire same as shaving. If some opportunistic tire vendors would like to keep their staff busy they could offer the same service.

Dennis

[Keith Novak]

With RA-1's we paid to have them shaved at $15 per tire. If you are unable to find a way to cycle your tires before you run them Tirerack.com for one will heat cycle them for you at $15 per tire same as shaving. If some opportunistic tire vendors would like to keep their staff busy they could offer the same service.

As someone stated above somewhere, since Tirerack doesn't offer trackside support they're not allowed to sell the SM tires. Shipping tires there and back would cost 3x more than the heat cycling.

[Tom Hampton]

As someone stated above somewhere, since Tirerack doesn't offer trackside support they're not allowed to sell the SM tires. Shipping tires there and back would cost 3x more than the heat cycling.

Hmmm...maybe that doesn't go into effect until 2012? They certainly have 205/50ZR15's in-stock right now, and charge $15/ea for heat-cycling.

Granted they want $221+HC+shipping.

[Jim Drago]

If you are referencing me Jim, then go ahead and add Gingerman, Grattan, Waterford Hills and Nelson Ledges to the list of tracks where I race and love the Hoosier performance. I hated the Toyo everywhere except for Mid Ohio. The Hoosier is equal at Mid O and a step up at all of the other tracks.

People are just going to have to try a set instead of projecting what it's going to be like, from hearsay.

Wasn't singling anyone out.. Your experience is what I expect as well. Mid Ohio is just a track all its' own. IMO, throw out all tire data related to Mid Ohio unless that is one of your primary tracks
Jim

[davecarama]

I have heat cycled sets and not heat cycled sets. I get the same wear out of them either way... so I don't waste my time heat cycling anymore. Hoosiers are good right off the truck (what Hoosier does with them out of the mold before they go on the truck, I don't know)

I like to pull the stickers off the tire before I mount and balance them though. It is part of my "process", "Superstition", "tradition", OCD way of doing things... whatever.

Dave
2 sets of wheels. (1-SM6, 1-H20)

[davecarama]

Hmmm...maybe that doesn't go into effect until 2012? They certainly have 205/50ZR15's in-stock right now, and charge $15/ea for heat-cycling.

Granted they want $221+HC+shipping.

Don't bother with heat cycling.
Shipping from TireRack for me a few weeks ago (street tires) was $45 for the set.

If you want/need to buy Hoosiers, contact your tire guy prior to the event and I guarantee they will bring a set for you. (give them a weeks notice, I know my tire guy gets his orders out by 9AM Mondays and receives his shipment on tuesdays by 11AM).

[James York]

Hmmm...maybe that doesn't go into effect until 2012? They certainly have 205/50ZR15's in-stock right now, and charge $15/ea for heat-cycling.

Granted they want $221+HC+shipping.

Those are not the SM6 marked tires.

[davecarama]

Those are not the SM6 marked tires.

FYI, the R6 and SM6 are the same tire marked different and with different cost of course (confirmed by Hoosier). If you are just testing, the results would be the same from both tires.

[davecarama]

Ohhh, I have a question!

In a triathlon, you can't wear a wetsuit unless the weather is below whatever degrees. (if you do, your race doesn't count or you get penalized or something because it is an advantage over those who don't wear wetsuits.)

What if the super tire tester finds out that shaved Hoosier H20 are faster than the SM6? Both tires are spec. Will there be a ruling that it must be raining in order to use rain tires?

Glad I could contribute to the questioning!

Dave

[Den]

Jim Drago, are you the moderator for this section of the site?

Got a question. What are/is the current record for pages generated in oh lets say a week of a new subject post? This one shows no sign of winding down any time soon.

Just curious!