291 replies to this topic

[Blake Thompson]

Using Dewhurstian numbers, you're off by about 300%.

LOL. Line of the Day for me, so far.

[Rob Burgoon]

Miller is flat like a pancake compared to road america. I think willow springs has just as much elevation as road america and 1.6 don't do too bad. But then again it's up with some twisty bits, not straight.

Big Willow has a neat design that favors the momentum car. You climb a steep hill which slows you for the track's only tight turn at the top, then come back down for a wider one at the bottom. It's like physics class. Kinetic energy to potential and then back to kinetic without the losses of simply parking the car in a braking zone. Extremely little brake use at that track.

OTOH, the average speeds are high enough that horsepower would really help too.

[Todd Green]

My opinion is that minor weight changes (>25lbs) are insignificant

So by that logic as long as we are within 25 lbs of the spec weight in tech, and we're not a Pro driver, we should be A-OK since the difference is insignificant right?

The only difference would have been some would have had difficulty making weight in the cars.

I still don't get this. Could those who can't make 2275 explain how? Perhaps they have torsens and cool suits and weigh well north of 200? I guess my car is an early 90 by the VIN. Is there a major weight difference in the chassis over the years for the 1.6?

Jim, you are right within the class it doesn't really matter what we weigh (other than heavier cars obviously use more brake and tire.) However, at least in our region, we are not large enough for SM to run in its own run group. So we have to "race" cars out of class. We're already way slower down the straights and way faster in the corners than most cars. These out of class cars often mess up the SM race. Its a bummer that this is going to get even harder. I just find it ironic that we don't make any concessions for really tall Miata drivers to fit (lowering the floor plan etc.) when there is nothing you can do to change your height, but yet we'll gladly artificially raise weights for people who refuse to get in any modicum of shape. Maybe I'm way off base and my car is just unusually light (though it is much heavier than the 2020 (IIRC) base weight Dave posted.) But hell, if that gets a bunch of people out to race, another 25 lbs of steel isn't the end of the world.

[FTodaro]

I still don't get this. Could those who can't make 2275 explain how? Perhaps they have torsens and cool suits and weigh well north of 200? I guess my car is an early 90 by the VIN. Is there a major weight difference in the chassis over the years for the 1.6?

Last year in NASA trim, which was 2390. With Ballast removed and no water in the cool suit box, and one gal of gas I was 2398. I weigh 200lbs if I did not go overboard the night before.

I see no harm in running the cars 10 to 20lbs heavier if we are all at the same disadvantage what difference does it make? Why give an advantage to the youngsters who still have not found the slow running metabolism that catches you when you get a litter older.

[LarryKing]

So by that logic as long as we are within 25 lbs of the spec weight in tech, and we're not a Pro driver, we should be A-OK since the difference is insignificant right?

Freak'n love it! Don't worry if I'm 10 lbs under, I'm an average driver, so it's OK.


Have a 1991 and I weigh 210 and can make 2275 with 1 gal in car. Spent last winter getting pounds out of the car - it can be done - not impossible.

[Blake Thompson]

I still don't get this. Could those who can't make 2275 explain how? Perhaps they have torsens and cool suits and weigh well north of 200? I guess my car is an early 90 by the VIN. Is there a major weight difference in the chassis over the years for the 1.6?

check, (torsen), Check (cool suit), check (210#s + 15 lbs of safety gear). Also I use a helmet blower. and data acq and camera with mount. I'm about 35 lbs heavy on an empty tank.

[Todd Green]

I see no harm in running the cars 10 to 20lbs heavier if we are all at the same disadvantage what difference does it make? Why give an advantage to the youngsters who still have not found the slow running metabolism that catches you when you get a litter older.

I'm in my 40's. Exercise is a beautiful thing. I don't mean that sarcastically. So many things to choose from. Currently I've been rock climbing. Burns a ton of calories, is great for the mental/head game, and gets you to some incredible places. I guarantee after you have to haul yourself up the side of a mountain several times, that weight is the enemy of rock climbers even more than racers.

I already pointed out my objections to more weight, but to summarize:

1) It is harder on the equipment
2) Really sucks to have to race all the cars in your run group, but not in your class, that pull you by 10 car lengths on the front straight and then park you by turn 2. Of course they are usually the mid-to-back packers of the other classes, so they are erratic, inconsistent, thus hard to time/second-guess and generally just mess with a momentum car like ours.
3) Faster is more fun. I personally enjoy going for track records etc. But for most of us, close racing trumps overall speed, or we'd not be in Miatas.
4) We're really just coddling people who choose to not lose weight, not those who can't make weight. Again, I ask where else do we do that in our sport?

We'll have to see if the changes bring out more racers and better racing. And yes, like everyone else, I appreciate the work that those who have volunteered their time to do. You can't please everyone and it isn't an easy task.

[dstevens]

I'm in my 40's. Exercise is a beautiful thing. I don't mean that sarcastically. So many things to choose from. Currently I've been rock climbing. Burns a ton of calories, is great for the mental/head game, and gets you to some incredible places. I guarantee after you have to haul yourself up the side of a mountain several times, that weight is the enemy of rock climbers even more than racers.

Rock climbing is used in programs like Pit Fit as well. There are also other cardio intense excercises, biking, mixed martial arts, rowing. I trained with Pit Fit for about a year. They were able to craft a great program for me that my docs loved that when I train I still use today. It is great to exercise. However, your contention that those over 200# are out of shape is becoming old school medical thinking. BMI doesn't take muscle, bone density or frame size into account. A better reference now is waist size to height. There is a pretty good chance that me at 250# is just as fit, if not more so than you or an average sized guy below 200#. That's not to say I'm asking for weights to be sized for guys as big as me, I'm OK with being at the upper limit size wise of racing cars. The point is that even comparing relative fitness levels you may be under that average in the class and I wouldn't support basing the numbers on under average any more that I would basing them on big guys like me.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Last year in NASA trim, which was 2390. With Ballast removed and no water in the cool suit box, and one gal of gas I was 2398. I weigh 200lbs if I did not go overboard the night before.

I see no harm in running the cars 10 to 20lbs heavier if we are all at the same disadvantage what difference does it make? Why give an advantage to the youngsters who still have not found the slow running metabolism that catches you when you get a litter older.

Just depends on who builds the car! I weighed as heavy as 225 last year and had to run 35lb of ballast in my 99 to NASA compliant! But my car is and EAST STREET lol!

[Jim Boemler]

I just find it ironic that we don't make any concessions for really tall Miata drivers to fit (lowering the floor plan etc.) when there is nothing you can do to change your height, but yet we'll gladly artificially raise weights for people who refuse to get in any modicum of shape. Maybe I'm way off base ...

I think you are off base on weight. It's great that you're a very fit 40+, more power to you. I'm a not-so-fit almost-65, and much as I'd love to go rock climbing, it just can't happen. And I'm not the oldest SM racer by a long shot. In another 20 years you'll understand, trust me.

BUT, you raise a good point with regard to height. I know many cars have passed tech with seating mods that aren't strictly legal, but I think it's time we make those mods fully legal. Jim/Mike, is there any rational reason for not allowing floorboard and tunnel mods to accommodate tall/wide drivers?

[dstevens]

is there any rational reason for not allowing floorboard and tunnel mods to accommodate tall/wide drivers?

The memory of Bernard?.....

[Todd Green]

However, your contention that those over 200# are out of shape is becoming old school medical thinking.

I've played one field sport or another just about my whole life. I'm well aware of the fitness level of large guys. I've also been around paddocks for quite a few years, and the average gentleman racer's physique doesn't quite match the larger brethren I've seen on the fields. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, and muscle is more dense than fat. Anyway, I'll drop it, since the weights aren't changing, so I'd better start getting used to it.

Though JM never did answer the question if I'm really going to have to put 10+ bolts through the floor of my car, per the 2010 NASA CCR rules. Or if the Spec Miata section's "securely" wording means we can use fewer. 10 for 100 lbs still seems like overkill, but I'm not an ME. (All I know is that I have a lot more weight held in the driver's seat and it only uses 4. )

[Mike Collins]

I think you are off base on weight. It's great that you're a very fit 40+, more power to you. I'm a not-so-fit almost-65, and much as I'd love to go rock climbing, it just can't happen. And I'm not the oldest SM racer by a long shot. In another 20 years you'll understand, trust me.

BUT, you raise a good point with regard to height. I know many cars have passed tech with seating mods that aren't strictly legal, but I think it's time we make those mods fully legal. Jim/Mike, is there any rational reason for not allowing floorboard and tunnel mods to accommodate tall/wide drivers?

We already did. Read the rules ....

You MAY NOT lower the floor pan, BUT you can do just about anything else.

I am 6'4" and have room to spare.

[Jim Boemler]

Thanks Mike. I confess I personally have no need of this, so I haven't followed it. But isn't lowering the floor pan key for some with long torsos? There's quite a lot of space between the floor pan and the bottom of the frame, so why would we disallow lowering the pan?

[pat slattery]

If they wanted to get the weights to 100 lbs difference why could it not have been. 2275 for the 1.6 and 2375 for the 99.

[Jim Boemler]

Some people just can't get it.

[Ron Alan]

If they wanted to get the weights to 100 lbs difference why could it not have been. 2275 for the 1.6 and 2375 for the 99.

You must have missed Jims post earlier...They had that choice and went with the 2300/2350/2400. Reason...coin flip maybe?

[Jim Boemler]

Not a coin flip at all. It was the rational choice to allow more people to race at the same weight. I can understand why people (who aren't heavy) don't think that should mean anything, but you'd think they could at least be able to read and repeat back. A damned parrot can do that much.

[Ron Alan]

Not a coin flip at all. It was the rational choice to allow more people to race at the same weight. I can understand why people (who aren't heavy) don't think that should mean anything, but you'd think they could at least be able to read and repeat back. A damned parrot can do that much.

I guess that sarcasm(so Jim doesn't have to keep repeating and explaining things over and over)was a little to subtle But you and I Jim B are on the same page

[Keith Novak]

Not a coin flip at all. It was the rational choice to allow more people to race at the same weight. I can understand why people (who aren't heavy) don't think that should mean anything, but you'd think they could at least be able to read and repeat back. A damned parrot can do that much.

A new Beomlerism... It's as easy for racers to be rational as it is to teach a parrot to read.