37 replies to this topic

[tLinder]

Anybody wanna buy some racetracks in Texas?

Game over for the U.S. Grand Prix and the Circuit of the Americas
http://www.autoweek..../FREE/111119900

Texas World Speedway is up for sale???
http://www.hfflp.com... Flyer.pdf&DT=1

[suck fumes]

Man that sucks!!! I live in austin and didn't know that haha. I also really hope they don't tear down TWS! SCCA would be losing a lot of entrants cause some people look forward to races there including myself.

[James York]

TWS being on the chopping block has been a rumor for years. One day, it will for sure happen. The College Station housing developments will approach and turning the track into a subdivision will be a financial reward that can't be turned down.

If true about the F1 track, that is a shame since it would be nice to have seen V8 Supercar and F1. But doesn't surprise me too much. Big $$, even bigger egos. If he didn't like the deal with Ecclestone before the NJ announcement, he better get ready to get bent over now if they want a race.

[trey]

Interesting timing , let's see :

- State of Texas agrees to put up $ 25,000,000 in advance to secure race date
- Gov. Perry announces he's running for President
- Gov. Perry's primary support is from Tea Party
- State of Texas withdraws agreement to put up $ 25,000,000 in advance

Ole Gov Perry may play a dummie on TV , but you can bet the farm on him being smart enough not to invest $ 25,000,000 in taxpayer money into a Bernie Eccelstone F1 deal during the presidential primary season.

I kind of wish Perry would have let it happen , I'd pay may share of the $ 25,000,000 just to watch the media circus

[Jim Drago]

I bet it all works out and they will be racing there next year.. Lots of games at play here

Jim

[steveracer]

Yep, lots of penis comparing going on...

All the C.A.V.E.s (Citizens Against Virtually Everything) are rejoicing now. I hope to see them very disappointed in a few weeks.

[MPR22]

McCombs is notorious for not playing nice with partners, he is one of those that thinks he has to control eveything. Early on he tried to renegotiate the land deal Hellmund had with the land owner. He had land brokers looking for a new sites for 6 months after he signed on.

[MPR22]

The owner of TWS has been trying to recapitalize/sell the property for over a year. He has been trying to sell shares of the tract to qualified investrors, but his offering memorandum was poorly written and gave no clue to the investor on how or what returns could be expected. The brokerage firm listing the property doesn't even know what the property is worth, much less offer a compelling reason to purchase the proeprty, I don't expect anyone to make an offer.

[dstevens]

I bet it all works out and they will be racing there next year.. Lots of games at play here

Jim

I wouldn't count Red Mc Combs and CotA out yet. The event trust funding isn't pulled, they just won't get it until after the event. Word is Tavo Hellmund who held the F1 date tried to power play Mc Combs and Bobby Epstein, two powerful business men. Tavo had the race, but no money. I'd bet a call was made to the state and now those funds are no longer available to Hellmund. Mc Combs could easily fund the event. Rumor mill in F1 is that Hellmund had a $25 million deal a year and when Epstein approached FOM the price went up to $35 million. Mc Combs and Epstein called BS and have stopped the deal. Ecclestone would be one in a long line of people that have under estimated Red Mc Combs. He's ruthless. Ecclestone's fortune came from one thing, the sale of the commercial rights of F1 (twice) to people that overpaid and are now heavily leveraged. OTOH, Mc Combs has several diversivfied interests and terms of wide scale business saavy has much more than Ecclestone. Ecclestone doesn't like to be confronted, but he's never dealt with a hard core Texan before. Until the WMC meets in Dec I wouldn't call the date off just yet.

[LarryKing]

Several years ago, in the city where I live, a levy was put on the ballot to build a sports arena. The voters wisely said no. Guess what, private money was found and the arena was built anyway. As a side note the seats in that arena are rarely filled as the team has the worse record in the league.

Because we are passionate about racing I think we over-estimate the general interest in motorsports. The average person has no idea what F1 is, and if they think about racing at all NASCAR comes to mind.

I'll believe this event will happen when I see it - Same goes for NJ.

[MPR22]

I wouldn't count Red Mc Combs and CotA out yet. The event trust funding isn't pulled, they just won't get it until after the event. Word is Tavo Hellmund who held the F1 date tried to power play Mc Combs and Bobby Epstein, two powerful business men. Tavo had the race, but no money. I'd bet a call was made to the state and now those funds are no longer available to Hellmund. Mc Combs could easily fund the event. Rumor mill in F1 is that Hellmund had a $25 million deal a year and when Epstein approached FOM the price went up to $35 million. Mc Combs and Epstein called BS and have stopped the deal. Ecclestone would be one in a long line of people that have under estimated Red Mc Combs. He's ruthless. Ecclestone's fortune came from one thing, the sale of the commercial rights of F1 (twice) to people that overpaid and are now heavily leveraged. OTOH, Mc Combs has several diversivfied interests and terms of wide scale business saavy has much more than Ecclestone. Ecclestone doesn't like to be confronted, but he's never dealt with a hard core Texan before. Until the WMC meets in Dec I wouldn't call the date off just yet.




I'm no high powered businessman like McCombs but it sure seems like Eccelstone has the leverage here. F1 has no shortage of tracks or countries that want a track and a race. Circuit of the Americas has spent 40 M according to the article, that all gets flushed if the F1 contract is not delivered. It sure seems like McCombs needs Ecclestone not Ecclestone needs McCombs. If Circuit of Americas was set up as a limited partnership and McCombs/Epstein are the general partners and put in the customary 10%, they will be less likely to protect 4 million in a negotiation vs 40 million. If I was a LP in the venture, I would sure have my attorney sending love letters to the GP right about now.

The 25 million fee is a true stumbling block if the state will not committ to funding after the first race. If it isn't ever going to happen then that is a huge expense for the partnership to eat each year for 10 years, almost doubling the investment required.

Always thought the state funding anything was a bit odd, Perry is not the fiscal conservative that he proclaims to be, if there is a chance of lining his pocket post political career he will make a deal that makes no sense for the state, see the NAFTA Super Highway that started but never finished.

Personally I hope this works out.

[James York]

Michael,

I thought the same thing. Eccelstone probably couldn't care less about having a race in the US. F1 has never been very popular, and he has plenty of other potential suitors willing to pony up the $$$. I am sure it's his way or the highway on this.

But, like you, I hope this track and event happens.

[LarryKing]

I went to the last three US Grand Prix races at WG ('78, '79 and '80). If I recall correctly general admission was about $20/weekend. In 1981 I went to Montreal GP - $35 weekend general admission. Last time I went to Montreal in 1995 it was $180 CAN for a bleacher seat. Anyone price a Canadian GP ticket lately?

Bernie is nuttier than a fruitcake if he thinks I'll pay $300 + to attend a race, and the State of Texas would be nuts to pony up $25 mil to host a race.

[Jim Drago]

Michael,

I thought the same thing. Eccelstone probably couldn't care less about having a race in the US. F1 has never been very popular, and he has plenty of other potential suitors willing to pony up the $$$. I am sure it's his way or the highway on this.

But, like you, I hope this track and event happens.

My only fear is with the NJ/NY apparently happening... It is no secret that Bernie has always wanted NYC deal for a long time.. Hopefully it will all work out... Lots of tracks built in last 10-15 years that were run a few years and dropped..

Jim

[Doug007]

The $25 million has become widely misunderstood and widely criticized as a giveaway. This simply isn't the case. However, the state comptroller has done a bad job of explaining this to people in and outside of Texas.

The money comes from a Major Events Trust Fund designed to bring major events (sports, music, etc.) to Texas. It has been used in the past to attract the superbowl to Dallas and the NCAA Final Four basketball tournament to Houston. In each case, state taxes collected due to the event (sales, hotel, alcohol, rental cars) are used to pay the $$ from the trust fund. It's no give away from the state, just a reallocation of tax revenue to encourage major events to come to Texas. All in all it's designed to be revenue neutral for the state.

The issue has become that they were already promising the $25 million before the race has been scheduled. Now they are pulling back from that and sticking to the facts, which are that money will only be provided based on the economic impact of the event. FWIW, the 2011 Superbowl in Dallas received over $26 million from the state. However, with the Bernie show, you're never entirely sure the event will happen until it actually does...

[tLinder]

Appears Dec 7 is next deadline
http://www.autoweek....16/F1/111119894

[dstevens]

I'm no high powered businessman like McCombs but it sure seems like Eccelstone has the leverage here. F1 has no shortage of tracks or countries that want a track and a race. Circuit of the Americas has spent 40 M according to the article, that all gets flushed if the F1 contract is not delivered. It sure seems like McCombs needs Ecclestone not Ecclestone needs McCombs. If Circuit of Americas was set up as a limited partnership and McCombs/Epstein are the general partners and put in the customary 10%, they will be less likely to protect 4 million in a negotiation vs 40 million. If I was a LP in the venture, I would sure have my attorney sending love letters to the GP right about now.

The 25 million fee is a true stumbling block if the state will not committ to funding after the first race. If it isn't ever going to happen then that is a huge expense for the partnership to eat each year for 10 years, almost doubling the investment required.

Always thought the state funding anything was a bit odd, Perry is not the fiscal conservative that he proclaims to be, if there is a chance of lining his pocket post political career he will make a deal that makes no sense for the state, see the NAFTA Super Highway that started but never finished.

Personally I hope this works out.

The money from the state comes from tax revenue generated by the event. If it doesn't generate the offset, funding would be eliminated or decreased. Under TX the fund could only be used for this purpose. IOW, they couldn't decide to spend it on teachers, etc. No one blinked and eye when the fund gave Jerry Jones $35 more than $25 mil for the Super Bowl or any of the other many events that received money from the fund.. It's an idea that we've been doing in Vegas long before Texas and other areas have done it. We do it a bit differently in that it comes from room tax revenue.

I think the idea that the track wouldn't be built if there was no F1 date is a bit of a stretch. In fact I go as far to say that it's more of a break even or loss leader, much like most of the other Grands Prix. Without having to homologate to FIA circuit Grade 1 and provide FOM mandated media, hospitality and garage facilities the cost will be reduced and they are likely, probably guaranteed to make more money with Moto GP and the other forms of racing. Miller has done alright without a GP, as well Barber and many, in fact all road circuits in the US have done well without a GP. F1 needs the US market for the sponsors far more than the US needs to hast a GP.

Dave

[James York]

F1 needs the US market for the sponsors far more than the US needs to hast a GP.

Dave

How would one additional race in the US signficantly change the exposure of F1 sponsors stateside? All present 18 races (or is it 19?) are broadcast in the US, but we both know, the viewership of F1 is tiny in terms of sporting events. Unfortunately, the US audience attention span is mostly held by crashes, violence and sex. Wise marketing dollars are spent toward the more cavemanish type events.

[dstevens]

How would one additional race in the US signficantly change the exposure of F1 sponsors stateside? All present 18 races (or is it 19?) are broadcast in the US, but we both know, the viewership of F1 is tiny in terms of sporting events. Unfortunately, the US audience attention span is mostly held by crashes, violence and sex. Wise marketing dollars are spent toward the more cavemanish type events.

It's been no secret in F1 that the sponsors and the big teams want a US presence to activate sponsorhip. The big money at the track doesn't come from fans as much as it does, in terms of profit margin from Paddock Club and sponsor hospitality. The same is true to various degrees in all forms of big time motorsport. As an example the US is Ferrari's largest market. We're still the richest market in the world and many still want a piece of it, regardless of economic climate right now. It's been sponsors and teams clamoring to get back to the US even though the F1 footprint here is smaller than for example, western Europe.

[James York]

Don't agree that F1 (Eccelstone) needs the US, but it doesn't matter. If it happens great, if it doesn't too bad for us.