128 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Moose your a knuckehead. Why are you always complaining just to complain? In GL reagion SCCA you can run all the Toyo RA1's you want. That lets you run both NASA and SCCA, since you have said many times under your former name that you would never bother to show up at an SCCA national, I dont see as why you care about the tire issues since you are acutally alowed to run them in both sanctioning bodies. And as for tech you complain there isnt enough tech, but then you dont want to be teched. What is it you want? Tech or no Tech? Hoosiers or RA1's? There is no substantial data sugesting the Hoosier is even faster at Mid Ohio, I have run Toyos to put me ont he pole and then ran hoosiers in the race and gone a full second slower, I have run hooisers to get the pole and changed to toyos and run the same time in the race. Seen guys run RA1's, hooiser A6, hoosier R6, and even BFG, and never seen a single tire you could say was a real difference maker at Mid Ohio. I have seen races won by a mile by my old Hoosiers that Deerwester bought after I had 8 cycles on them, still winning on them at the 13 cycle mark, so unless you are runnign with the top 10-15 SM guys in the nation, I dont think the tires are what wins or losses you a race, A great driver in a great car that day wins races. I dont see how tires one way or the others would preclude you from with any sanctioning body. Beleive me there are some reasons i prefer one to the other, but it has nothing to do with tires or tech.

[Steve D]

Moose your a knuckehead.

Should we just shorten that to Mooseknuckle?

[Johnny D]

Moosehead?
J~

[LarryKing]

Mr Webb,

I did not start this thread to complain about lack of tech, I merely stated that in 9 years of Ohio/Indiana, now GreatLakes, NASA competition the only real tech I personally observed was at the National. This was in reaction to the suggestion on another thread that lack of tech in Florida was an isolated occurrence. I suggest it is not.

As far as SCCA regional competition goes, and only referring to SCCA regional competition, I don't believe that most SM competitors think invasive tech is warranted or desired, at least not the competitors I personally know in my region.

Now I will explain my tire situation. I am working two jobs, a full time day job and freelancing at night. This is how I spend most of my evenings. I do this so I can afford to attend 6-8 regional events this season. Moose NASA membership+Moose NASA license+Squirrel NASA membership+Squirrel NASA license+1st NASA Mid-Ohio event = 1 set of Hoosiers.

Yes I could run my old Toyos - but Toyos absolutely heat cycle out. I was just turning laps last year because all I had was 3 year old, probably 50+ cycle Toyos. That's why I work, so I can buy several sets of new tires for this year. Another major factor is that Squirrel and I like to enter races in other divisions/regions, particularly the SEDiv. The SEDiv spec the national tire for all regional events so if I want to race there I have to buy Hoosiers.

Mid-Ohio is only one of many tracks I like to visit.

Again, my budget simply does not permit multiple tire brands. I'm not upset, I'm not complaining, it's simply my reality - Moose's world if you will (@Mueller). When forced to make a choice I prefer how the SCCA conducts its events for a host of reasons.

I don't recall personally insulting anyone on this site, if I did I apologize.

[john mueller]

Again, my budget simply does not permit multiple tire brands. I'm not upset, I'm not complaining, it's simply my reality - Moose's world if you will (@Mueller). When forced to make a choice I prefer how the SCCA conducts its events for a host of reasons.

I don't recall personally insulting anyone on this site, if I did I apologize.

Moose; I was using your post to make my point about that it's all a matter of perspective when it come to anything, and in this case it's tires.... Everyone has their own. But making the point that NASA's decision to remain on Toyos as the reason for you not to attend NASA races just seemed silly to me. Looks like the real factor was that you guys wanted to run in a different region/division and you prefer SCCA anyways... Well that makes way more sense, I hope it goes well for you guys. I apologize if I came off in an attacking manner, not my intent.

BTW: At the 2011 Nationals (Mid-O) my best set of RA1's were constructed in 2009 and had 50+ cycles on them, the new (2011) RA1s were almost two-seconds slower.

[LarryKing]

I not blaming one group or the other, but if both organizations were on the same tire then I would race with both.

[FTodaro]

I not blaming one group or the other, but if both organizations were on the same tire then I would race with both.

OK I got to jump on the Moose on this one, I think what KWebb was saying and John maybe is that since in SCCA regional s its open tire you do not have to go out and get two sets of tires. you can run the Toyo which at mid o is a good tire and you can run them for ever so the cost factor is good. the fact that SCCA national requires Hoosier is only relevant at the one national race at Mid O. otherwise at all the regional you can run any dot legal sm size tire you want.
So are you sure that the reason for not running NASA is the Tire??

Now what nick name do you like, Moosehead, or........

[Johnny D]

I can't speak for all regions but SFR doesn't have open tire in either club, SM, Reg or Nat.
J~

[LarryKing]

Frank, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but what part of "I don't just race at Mid-Ohio, I travel to other SCCA divisions that require Hoosier, I can only afford to buy so many tires, and the money saved by foregoing NASA is part of my tire budget" didn't you understand.

Bullwinkle J. Moose

[Armando Ramirez]

I do not know about "all" the regions, but in the SE's, particularly Florida and Central Florida Hoosiers are required.
All for all of the SE's enduros, Hoosiers are required.

We have only had our car since March 2011, and presently if we want to run NASA and SCCA, we are going to have to go out and get two additional sets of wheels - three if we want to get Hoosier rains.



>Frank's
>OK I got to jump on the Moose on this one, I think what KWebb was saying and John maybe is that since in SCCA regional s its open tire you do not have to >go out and get two sets of tires. you can run the Toyo which at mid o is a good tire and you can run them for ever so the cost factor is good. the fact that >SCCA national requires Hoosier is only relevant at the one national race at Mid O. otherwise at all the regional you can run any dot legal sm size tire you >want.
>So are you sure that the reason for not running NASA is the Tire??

Frank, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but what part of "I don't just race at Mid-Ohio, I travel to other SCCA divisions that require Hoosier, I can only afford to buy so many tires, and the money saved by foregoing NASA is part of my tire budget" didn't you understand.

Bullwinkle J. Moose

[dstevens]

Looks like the real factor was that you guys wanted to run in a different region/division and you prefer SCCA anyways...

I think that pretty much sums it up right there.

[FTodaro]

Frank, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but what part of "I don't just race at Mid-Ohio, I travel to other SCCA divisions that require Hoosier, I can only afford to buy so many tires, and the money saved by foregoing NASA is part of my tire budget" didn't you understand.

Bullwinkle J. Moose

Apparently everything you said after "Frank" No worries your Mooseness, I and others who chimed in are just trying to understand, I assumed, wrongly I see that you did most of your racing in the GLD.
Don’t get me wrong I understand the concern, as I also race in other regions and plan on doing a few National events, but I do most of my events in the GLD.
Now that we got that cleared up, I will buy you a beer in a few weeks if you’re at the track.

[john mueller]

Now that we got that cleared up, I will buy you a beer in a few weeks if you’re at the track.

See that! Right there is why I love racing with you dudes! Ok, this topic can be put to bed now...

[Todd Green]

BTW: At the 2011 Nationals (Mid-O) my best set of RA1's were constructed in 2009 and had 50+ cycles on them, the new (2011) RA1s were almost two-seconds slower.

And that right there is one of the main reasons why I don't want to be on RA-1's. Who wants to have to find the magic combination that gives you the fastest tire (not to mention shaving, finding how many cycles it takes to bring them in for your particular tracks, etc.)? So if I'm just starting out now and have to get 2011 tires, I'm giving up 2 seconds to those who still have tires from previous years? Add this to the potential tire shortages and having costs for extra wheels and tires if you want to run SCCA Nats, and I just don't see how you can continue to justify that moving to Hoosiers in 2013 wouldn't have been better for the racers. You are forcing many people to choose one org or the other, and this defeats the whole point of having everyone on the same rule set.

Yes the SCCA switched first, due to input from their members that they'd rather be on a molded tire.

[LarryKing]

I CAN'T WAIT to try out my new Hoosier H20s!!!

+1 Mr. Green.

[MPR22]

+1 Mr Green!

[Jim Drago]

And that right there is one of the main reasons why I don't want to be on RA-1's. Who wants to have to find the magic combination that gives you the fastest tire (not to mention shaving, finding how many cycles it takes to bring them in for your particular tracks, etc.)? So if I'm just starting out now and have to get 2011 tires, I'm giving up 2 seconds to those who still have tires from previous years? Add this to the potential tire shortages and having costs for extra wheels and tires if you want to run SCCA Nats, and I just don't see how you can continue to justify that moving to Hoosiers in 2013 wouldn't have been better for the racers. You are forcing many people to choose one org or the other, and this defeats the whole point of having everyone on the same rule set.

Yes the SCCA switched first, due to input from their members that they'd rather be on a molded tire.

I get your point and understand.. Just want to make sure it is understood that 2011 tires were not the issue.. New tires were the issue IMO.. I have about 8 sets of 2010 -2011 tires saved up for this years NASA championship

Jim

[Rob Burgoon]

Does anyone have any theories as to why old tires work better at mid-o? Is it a drag thing?

[Todd Green]

I get your point and understand.. Just want to make sure it is understood that 2011 tires were note the issue.. New tires were the issue IMO..

Thanks Jim, that's good to know! I thought there was also speculation that there were potential "bad batches" that got released (didn't cure long enough) due to the tsunami. Anyone have data on how many cycles you need for tires to be optimal at Miller? Most of our events (16 races?) this year will be run under NASA (whereas we ran under SCCA rules in previous years.)

[LarryKing]

NASA Championship Special - 3 sets of finely aged 'old compound' Toyo RA-1s for sale. $400 per set if purchased by May 1, $500 per set until July 1, after which they are $600 per set.