128 replies to this topic

[JRHille]

If tech was improved in the Great Lakes region, I would have found out before the qualifying race at nasa nationals that my car didn't have a heater box. Or maybe if I read the rules and inspected....hmmm..

No cars in the NASA Great Lakes region have ever raised an eyebrow in my opinion. We are all very close and I doubt many others question either.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Hey Kyle, I think you are looking at me ...... should I tell you that my "bad ass mother" in fact dynoed in the low 120s hp when I hauled it back from Road America? Or would that offer too much fact for the speculation? What was your '99 car horsepower in the latter part of last year ;-)

Any way you want to look at, I think it is safe to say that car was just incredible that first season. Simple as this for me, Jim would never have taken that car to the Runnoffs with 120hp, and I dont beleive that the car was worn out when you got it, as again Jim wouldnt have taken a worn out car to the runoffs. I had an incredible dyno number last year in SCCA trim. but I only raced that car in one NASA SM race, that being the national, where it rained alot, and well since I have never been worth 2 cents in the rain, I made some other bone head moves for the nationals, like changing brake pad brands, and not chasing the setup. My car was good enough for the Pole last year in the SCCA dbl national, and that car was Legal, and could have withstood a teardown at any time. Again and as I have stated several times, I do not beleive that anyone is cheating at the front of the NASA GL or SCCA GL fields. Well except Hille I think running No Heater Core was worth like 10hp, no wonder nobody could keep up LOL, it was to bad to see that hold him back at the nationals, I think he would have had a shot, if that had not pushed him to the tail end.

[Jim Drago]

Just to clear up...
Chris bought my spare car, it was a good car but not a great car and not as good as my primary. Primary car was 125 on Back streets dyno at the Runoffs, I believe Chris car was 123.

Jim

[Todd Green]

If it is not legal in one area, it is not legal in the othere areas, that is the fair and equatible way, the same for all.

I don't think anyone is suggesting you have different rules. There is just different leniency in enforcement. Much like if you are going 5 mph over the limit in a school zone while kids are getting out, you're much more likely to get a ticket than going 5 mph over the limit on a freeway. Sticking to racing terms, I'd expect a spec fuel for the June Sprints or Runoffs. I'd not expect it for your typical regional race. I'd also expect the tech to be longer and more invasive.

Again, I'm more responding to "A more uniform tech process from NASA region-to-region has been one of the big things on my list from the beginning of when I accepted this gig." I guess it all depends on what "uniform process" means. Personally I'd rather see focus on uniform tires between the sanctioning bodies .

[dstevens]

Again, I'm more responding to "A more uniform tech process from NASA region-to-region has been one of the big things on my list from the beginning of when I accepted this gig." I guess it all depends on what "uniform process" means. Personally I'd rather see focus on uniform tires between the sanctioning bodies .

Again, a non sequitur comparison. The tire issue has to do with existing contracts and roll over dates for those contracts and traffic law has nothing to do with racing. A more uniform approach could be checking the top X number of cars a bit more closely and checking everyone for weight, plate, tires and perhaps anything that doesn't look out of the ordinary. Here is how other amateur racing series deal with the tech crew problem...

http://www.racingwes...operations.html

[Todd Green]

The tire issue has to do with existing contracts and roll over dates for those contracts and traffic law has nothing to do with racing.

Had it just been for 2012, I'd agree, but this says otherwise: "We are delighted to renew our partnership with Toyo Tires for four more years."

[LarryKing]

"We are delighted to renew our partnership with Toyo Tires for four more years."

Pretty much seals it for me - SCCA only. Tech all you want in NASA!

[dstevens]

Had it just been for 2012, I'd agree, but this says otherwise: "We are delighted to renew our partnership with Toyo Tires for four more years."

It was just for 2012 but they chose to renew for additional years. For them it was a better deal with better contingency money. That money ans sponsorship puts the championship race on TV. Usually the runoffs are on Speed but I didn't notice them last time. Do they have a broadcast TV deal? With streaming it's becoming less and less a factor but it remains there is more money in traditional TV/cable than web only. There are some SCCA divs that are allowing Toyo's in the supps for regional events. The Hoosier rule is a national rule and can be over ruled regionally in the supps.

SCCA regional tech isn't that comprehensive either or not existent in many cases. What's the saying about stones, glass, and houses?

[Todd Green]

It was just for 2012 but they chose to renew for additional years. For them it was a better deal with better contingency money.

So in other words, your post was incorrect and didn't address what I am saying. You missed my whole point. They went through all the trouble to get on the same rules (which I applaud them for!), but sabotage it by keeping us on different tires for the near future. Great. Glad it was "better" for them. What about what is better for their clients, the people actually racing? (And no, the contingency doesn't make up for it, IMO.)

[Doug007]

I don't understand why people are upset at NASA. SCCA was the one that changed tires to Hoosiers...

I thought everyone vowed eternal devotion to the never heat-cycle out, good until they cord RA-1s :-)

[LarryKing]

I'm not upset with NASA - they did what was in their best interest. I wish them well. It just rules out my participation for the foreseeable future. I doubt I'll be missed.

[James York]

I thought everyone vowed eternal devotion to the never heat-cycle out, good until they cord RA-1s :-)

Not in the real world.... on all points

[MPR22]

I don't understand why people are upset at NASA. SCCA was the one that changed tires to Hoosiers...

I thought everyone vowed eternal devotion to the never heat-cycle out, good until they cord RA-1s :-)

The RA-1 is an inferior tire on several levels. In my experience the Hoosiers have small step changes in grip level, through various heat cycles. 1-6, 7-9,10-?. I can still use the Hoosiers to play and practice on at 10+ heat cycles without having them heat cycle into greasy unsuable tires. The Ra-1 are giving me 6 heat cycles at 3/32. After that they are just useless. They seemed to last longer on my 1.6 but I was slower and not as hard on them.

After the next NASA race I will decide if I am done with NASA, chasing a regional points lead is getting too expensive running two different tires. Also the tech is light. I have seen three different cars this year that strongly resemble Mr. grease and set up's speed. 99's get the standard weights and plates checked and 1.6s get weight checked and their hood popped and thats all. The SCCA SOWDIV has done about the same tech but the cars seem much more equal.

[FTodaro]

The RA-1 is an inferior tire on several levels. In my experience the Hoosiers have small step changes in grip level, through various heat cycles. 1-6, 7-9,10-?. I can still use the Hoosiers to play and practice on at 10+ heat cycles without having them heat cycle into greasy unsuable tires. The Ra-1 are giving me 6 heat cycles at 3/32. After that they are just useless. They seemed to last longer on my 1.6 but I was slower and not as hard on them.

Not my experience at all. I understand that Mid Ohio My home track is real good for the old RA-1 but I have two sets that are two years old, quit counting the HC on them and I ran them two weeks ago at Road Atlanta with no issues, Not as good at the New Hoosier but as good as a hot or 6 + HC Hoosier in my opinion. I ran new Hoosiers the following weekend so I had a fresh comparison.

No question a New Hoosier is the best but they do not hold up, to me that durability is not even close. So if keeping the cost of racing in check the Hoosier is not the better tire.

But we are not really talking tech are we?

[Doug007]

I was being facetious but maybe my :-) didn't convey the proper amount of sarcasm...

Glad to hear the Hohos are performing so well.

[Doug007]

It sounds like regular use of a whistler (and keeping track of who has been whistled) and a stack of intake manifold gaskets could go a long way to detering motor funny business...

[MPR22]

Hell I would settle for checking the flywheel, but yes just the implied check of a cam or compression should bring cars back to the norm.

[john mueller]

I don't understand why people are upset at NASA. SCCA was the one that changed tires to Hoosiers...

Yep. Exactly.

I'm not upset with NASA - they did what was in their best interest. I wish them well. It just rules out my participation for the foreseeable future. I doubt I'll be missed.

It's so funny how perspectives change the discussion. Moose, I'm glad it's your world and we're all just living in it...

Not my experience at all. I understand that Mid Ohio My home track is real good for the old RA-1 but I have two sets that are two years old, quit counting the HC on them and I ran them two weeks ago at Road Atlanta with no issues, Not as good at the New Hoosier but as good as a hot or 6 + HC Hoosier in my opinion. I ran new Hoosiers the following weekend so I had a fresh comparison.

No question a New Hoosier is the best but they do not hold up, to me that durability is not even close. So if keeping the cost of racing in check the Hoosier is not the better tire.

Same deal with Miller (or so I'm told), old ratty RA1's on SM's work best.

Again,it comes down to perspective and goals... Where does it say grippy tires are 'better' for spec racing?

[Johnny D]

Same deal with Miller (or so I'm told), old ratty RA1's on SM's work best.

Again,it comes down to perspective and goals... Where does it say grippy tires are 'better' for spec racing?

I never liked the R888 but any talk about using the RS1?
J~

[LarryKing]

It's so funny how perspectives change the discussion. Moose, I'm glad it's your world and we're all just living in it...

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