117 replies to this topic

[htron435]

since we got to go through all the testing and learning the tire, I think we should get double Toyo bucks, on the bucks we are holding though the end of the year.

John Get on that will you.

What Frank said.

[Cy Peake]

What sort of heat cycling do they need? Letting the Hoosiers "rest" for a month after their initial heat cycle isn't the most affordable use of my preciously expensive track time.

[Ken Wilkinson]

This is what I have been told:
Go out for about 15 mins, bring the tire up to operating temp but don't shock it ( overheat, slide etc.). Come in take the tires off cover them with a heavy blanket completely put them in the trailer out of the sun. Let them cool to ambient temp for at least 3 hours. After that let them sit for a minimum of 24 hours, the longer the better though.....3 days, a week....then they will be ready to go. On your first out lap on them, scrub them in and get heat in them and then you can run them hard....(if it is cool out you might need another lap for grip)......

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

This is what I have been told:
Go out for about 15 mins, bring the tire up to operating temp but don't shock it ( overheat, slide etc.). Come in take the tires off cover them with a heavy blanket completely put them in the trailer out of the sun. Let them cool to ambient temp for at least 3 hours. After that let them sit for a minimum of 24 hours, the longer the better though.....3 days, a week....then they will be ready to go. On your first out lap on them, scrub them in and get heat in them and then you can run them hard....(if it is cool out you might need another lap for grip)......

That sounds all well and good... how about slapping a set of stickers on for qual and burning off a flyer. That is what seems to work well on the Hoosiers...

[Chris Price]

Beginning in 2013, NASA will require the new Proxes RR for dry weather competition use in the Spec Miata, 944 Spec, Spec 3, and Spec E30 classes. These classes will still be permitted to use the RA1 tire for the first two events of the 2013 season in each NASA region for dry weather competition and may use the RA1 at any time during the 2013 season for wet weather competition

taken from http://www.nasaprora...s-rr-by-to.html

So, question is who determines the race is going to be officially DRY. And if someone has this level of pre-cog especially at Mid-Ohio, I need to make friends

Reason I ask is that HYPOTHETICALLY if someone were sitting on a whole bunch of perfect, bald, ready for showtime RA1s, then they might prove quite competitive at Mid-Ohio vs. the new full 4/32" Toyo RRs for much longer than the first couple of race weekends. So someone OFFICIALLY has to call the race DRY in advance in order to ban the RA1s from use, otherwise its a case of: hey, I just put my RA1 (ahem) Wets on because I thought it would be rain because, hey, its Mid-Ohio and there has to be a 50% chance, but (wow) I guess the Dry weather scrubbed my tread all the way down and, well, I guess they worked pretty good

I'm just sayin' .......

[JRHille]

what Price said...

[john mueller]

So, question is who determines the race is going to be officially DRY.

Hmmmmm, interesting. Great question!

I'll look into how it will be handled after the first 2 events of the season (when RA-1's are still legal for dry-track use). I have my hunch but I'll want it verified before I say anything. Give me a few days...

[Johnny D]

Would be nice for guys on a budget to shave the wets after and run them, but the rules and all.
J~

[Tom Sager]

Hmmmmm, interesting. Great question!

I'll look into how it will be handled after the first 2 events of the season (when RA-1's are still legal for dry-track use). I have my hunch but I'll want it verified before I say anything. Give me a few days...

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[FTodaro]

taken from http://www.nasaprora...s-rr-by-to.html

So, question is who determines the race is going to be officially DRY. And if someone has this level of pre-cog especially at Mid-Ohio, I need to make friends

Reason I ask is that HYPOTHETICALLY if someone were sitting on a whole bunch of perfect, bald, ready for showtime RA1s, then they might prove quite competitive at Mid-Ohio vs. the new full 4/32" Toyo RRs for much longer than the first couple of race weekends. So someone OFFICIALLY has to call the race DRY in advance in order to ban the RA1s from use, otherwise its a case of: hey, I just put my RA1 (ahem) Wets on because I thought it would be rain because, hey, its Mid-Ohio and there has to be a 50% chance, but (wow) I guess the Dry weather scrubbed my tread all the way down and, well, I guess they worked pretty good

I'm just sayin' .......

i do not have an answer to your question Chris but I suspect that the RR is going to be faster than the RA1 and if that is true you and most of the other top running guys will run the faster tire. The only guys who will be affected is folks who have a large cash of tires who cannot afford to buy new.

Of coarse I have no inside info on the RR or if it will be faster, I am guessing it will be, and will be disappointed if it is not. Its going to take us more that a few race weekends to dial them in, and i just cannot see you sitting in the paddock running on old tires getting behind the curve on the set up.

So sell those tires on EBay for the the DE guys, and share you data.

[ToddW]

Hmmmmm, interesting. Great question! I'll look into how it will be handled after the first 2 events of the season (when RA-1's are still legal for dry-track use). I have my hunch but I'll want it verified before I say anything. Give me a few days...

John, One approach would be to consider specifying min tread depth for running RA1s (sufficient to make them legitimate rains). Driver can run them anytime they want to their detriment (in the dry) or benefit (in the rain).

[john mueller]

John,
One approach would be to consider specifying min tread depth for running RA1s (sufficient to make them legitimate rains). Driver
can run them anytime they want to their detriment (in the dry) or benefit (in the rain).

Yeah, this is one of the approaches I am planning on proposing to NASA.

I think allowing an 'intermediate' RA-1, such as having tread somewhere around a 4/32 shave would be a good idea... It adds a layer of race strategy when conditions hint the possibility of rain. But full-on 'Mid-Ohio bald RA-1's' ain't gonna fly after the grandfather time lapses.

Still working on it...

[Johnny D]

4 lines showing required? Easy to tech.
J~

[Chris Price]

John

Good ideas, some other thoughts:

1. an intermediate RA1 at 4/32 would become a 2/32 or 3/32 within just a session or two, depending on the track. To my mind this would just increase the $$$ burden for racers i.e. have to buy wets and dry AND intermediates - the last of which will in any case be illegal within a race or two". This $$$ burden seems out of step with the intent of the class

2. a minimum tread depth that is quite low, or as Johnny D suggested, 4 lines showing, would be more than enough to allow long use of RA1s as rains (full or intermediate) without going so far as to offer the "baldy" advantage

3. make the penalty for running illegal RA1s be that you cannot earn podium spots - say a 3 or 5 spot penalty if protested / teched - this will keep the front of the pack out of them while dramatically increasing the potential for the rest of the pack to use them up

4. extend use of RA1s for much longer than the first two races (not sure if this causes an issue with Toyo or not!)

5. possibly combine 3. and 4. to provide a more effective and cost-efficient phase out of the RA1s

6. tech compliance of tires BEFORE the race on grid, possibly combined with the X spot penalty for non-compliance, thus removing the "they were at X/32 of tread before the race, I just wore them out with my hellacious speed" excuse

Just ideas - although my original question was serious. I'm excited about the new Toyo RR but I do have over 20 carefully assembled and Mid-Ohio perfect RA1s that its kinda of a shame will become junk 1/1/2013.

[Doug007]

Why not allow RA-1s AND RRs as legal tires at any time and let the racers sort out what they want to use when.

If the RRs are truly faster than the RA-1s then it should sort itself out. I don't see why Toyo would have a problem since they are supplying both tires.

I agree that determining what defines as "rain RA-1" vs. a "dry RA-1" would be difficult and would really have to be done pre-race. The issue would come, as Chris mentioned, when you want an intermediate tire with light rain. I wonder if a full tread RR would be faster than a 4/32 RA-1 in these situations. I guess only time will tell.

Is there such a thing as a shaved Hoosier H20 intermediate? Did anyone use them this way this last year?

[john mueller]

Why not allow RA-1s AND RRs as legal tires at any time and let the racers sort out what they want to use when.

I'm not sure what will be decided but I can assure you that this will NEVER happen.

[Rob Burgoon]

John

Good ideas, some other thoughts:

1. an intermediate RA1 at 4/32 would become a 2/32 or 3/32 within just a session or two, depending on the track. To my mind this would just increase the $$$ burden for racers i.e. have to buy wets and dry AND intermediates - the last of which will in any case be illegal within a race or two". This $$$ burden seems out of step with the intent of the class

2. a minimum tread depth that is quite low, or as Johnny D suggested, 4 lines showing, would be more than enough to allow long use of RA1s as rains (full or intermediate) without going so far as to offer the "baldy" advantage

3. make the penalty for running illegal RA1s be that you cannot earn podium spots - say a 3 or 5 spot penalty if protested / teched - this will keep the front of the pack out of them while dramatically increasing the potential for the rest of the pack to use them up

4. extend use of RA1s for much longer than the first two races (not sure if this causes an issue with Toyo or not!)

5. possibly combine 3. and 4. to provide a more effective and cost-efficient phase out of the RA1s

6. tech compliance of tires BEFORE the race on grid, possibly combined with the X spot penalty for non-compliance, thus removing the "they were at X/32 of tread before the race, I just wore them out with my hellacious speed" excuse

Just ideas - although my original question was serious. I'm excited about the new Toyo RR but I do have over 20 carefully assembled and Mid-Ohio perfect RA1s that its kinda of a shame will become junk 1/1/2013.

NASA allowed inters in 2012.

I'd allow both tires until Toyo RA1 were proven to be faster on some track in the dry. If that happens, I'd add rules to stop that.

[Dirt Surfer]

Well it kills me to have to do it but as I posted in the NASA forum this kind of tire switching has caused me to decide that its time to get rid of my car, I started in SCCA in 2008 with Ra1's then they went to R888 then back to Ra1's then to Hoosiers so I went to NASA. Got my car inspected a few months ago and went to my first race at Road Atlanta now I'm back after rebuilding my engine and will have to buy the new RR's, I think 4 different tires in 4 years really sux so I'm throwing in the towel, hate to rant on this but it has cost me a bunch of money that I dont have. Well good luck to you guys and I'm going to miss it, Steve. BTW I will have a nice starter 1.6 S/M with dual log books for sale soon with a spare brand new R/E motor.

[Chris Price]

Interesting idea from Rob ..... why wouldn't NASA allow use of RA1s throughout 2012.

If the Toyo RRs are really just all-round better then whats the harm?

Anyone who wants to use up their RA1s at risk of disadvantage could do so. Anyone who doesn't want to throw useable tires away can burn through their stock at their leisure.

[Rob Burgoon]

Well it kills me to have to do it but as I posted in the NASA forum this kind of tire switching has caused me to decide that its time to get rid of my car, I started in SCCA in 2008 with Ra1's then they went to R888 then back to Ra1's then to Hoosiers so I went to NASA. Got my car inspected a few months ago and went to my first race at Road Atlanta now I'm back after rebuilding my engine and will have to buy the new RR's, I think 4 different tires in 4 years really sux so I'm throwing in the towel, hate to rant on this but it has cost me a bunch of money that I dont have. Well good luck to you guys and I'm going to miss it, Steve. BTW I will have a nice starter 1.6 S/M with dual log books for sale soon with a spare brand new R/E motor.

Good bye!