117 replies to this topic

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Interesting idea from Rob ..... why wouldn't NASA allow use of RA1s throughout 2012.

If the Toyo RRs are really just all-round better then whats the harm?

Anyone who wants to use up their RA1s at risk of disadvantage could do so. Anyone who doesn't want to throw useable tires away can burn through their stock at their leisure.

I suspect that NASA is needing to provide some type of guarantee to Toyo about how many RR's they are going to sell. Forcing everyone to use the RR's is likely the only way to ensure this happens. Even with the amount of tires we consume nationally I would imagine the economics of producing a new tire is daunting.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Well it kills me to have to do it but as I posted in the NASA forum this kind of tire switching has caused me to decide that its time to get rid of my car, I started in SCCA in 2008 with Ra1's then they went to R888 then back to Ra1's then to Hoosiers so I went to NASA. Got my car inspected a few months ago and went to my first race at Road Atlanta now I'm back after rebuilding my engine and will have to buy the new RR's, I think 4 different tires in 4 years really sux so I'm throwing in the towel, hate to rant on this but it has cost me a bunch of money that I dont have. Well good luck to you guys and I'm going to miss it, Steve. BTW I will have a nice starter 1.6 S/M with dual log books for sale soon with a spare brand new R/E motor.

No offense... but how is switching tires every couple of years that much of an economic impact to your racing? Tires don't last very long. I am doing good to get 8-10 heat cycles on a set of shaved Toyo's. That equates to a single race weekend if I were to use them straight through. With having a couple of events to burn up the old tires I just don't see how a change is that cost prohibitive.

I will not argue that racing is stupid expensive and that for most of us, it is only marginally affordable. I understand the need to quit racing because of financial reasons.. I just don't get that changing tires is the actual root cause here.

[Ron Alan]

Well it kills me to have to do it but as I posted in the NASA forum this kind of tire switching has caused me to decide that its time to get rid of my car, I started in SCCA in 2008 with Ra1's then they went to R888 then back to Ra1's then to Hoosiers so I went to NASA. Got my car inspected a few months ago and went to my first race at Road Atlanta now I'm back after rebuilding my engine and will have to buy the new RR's, I think 4 different tires in 4 years really sux so I'm throwing in the towel, hate to rant on this but it has cost me a bunch of money that I dont have. Well good luck to you guys and I'm going to miss it, Steve. BTW I will have a nice starter 1.6 S/M with dual log books for sale soon with a spare brand new R/E motor.

There is a market for used tires...and new tires! You were on RA1's for 08,10,11...888's for 09...and Hoosiers for 12. That scenario is a burden?? So you went to NASA, ran an event, depending on your region, could run at least 2 more for sure on those same tires(which will be done I hope)...so then you'll be ready to buy new tires?! I'm confused why the change has thrown you in a tail spin???
Ahhh...back to SCCA? Or you don't want to buy the Hoosier either? All these tires cost the same! Sorry, your rant is falling on deaf ears To bad you have to go but glance in the mirror on your way out...or just keep blaming Bush!

[Dirt Surfer]

Hey guys sorry about the rant, musta been some bad sushi, Yeah I guess it just hit me when I realized that I will need new tires again. The new RR's look good I wonder how well they compare to the old ra1's or the hoosiers. I guess if they dont have to be shaved that will cut down on the cost and to Ron I forgot about 2010 since I had to lay out and pay for my Daughters wedding so that was a whole year of running that I missed. I will have to sit down and see if this is something that I can afford to keep doing or maybe just rent out my car for some added income. I may have to buy one set and try them out, I only have a couple of tracks that I can run at and the closest one is CMP which is inheritantly hard on tires so I would be curious to see how they hold up to that surface. Maybe 2013 will hold some hope and change in a good way

[htron435]

I'm not sure what will be decided but I can assure you that this will NEVER happen.

Any chance of getting the switchover extended to at least mid season like with the 888? May allow more time for guys to burn up the old sets that they have and help us to scrub in and season some new tires.

I prefer C Price's idea of letting the RA1s last through 2012. Also may help the vendors sell out their stock of RA1's.

And possibly in this scenario limit toyo bucks to only RR's -- which should theoretically help sell the new product.

[philstireservice]

I prefer C Price's idea of letting the RA1s last through 2012. Also may help the vendors sell out their stock of RA1's.

RA-1 is still the Spec FT rain, so no need to sell out of them.

[htron435]

RA-1 is still the Spec FT rain, so no need to sell out of them.

Shhh. . . .you're not helping

[Johnny D]

<sub>Has anyone heard how the E30 guys like them? I haven't checked over on their sites.
If there's more grip and they're doing a standing start, I didn't want cars and drivetrain parts everywhere when I come around.

And for rains, how about whipping out the old tire grooving tool?
J~</sub>

[hoverducky]

More new info on the Toyo RR - It was another good weekend for the Proxes RR, taking home overall wins in 2 classes at this weekend’s SCCA Enduro at Laguna Seca Raceway.

In the UL class the #50 of Myers/Allen, Hull took home first place beating the second place finisher by 3 laps while recording lap times up to 1.86 seconds faster than their nearest competitor. All in their first race on Proxes RR’s

In the PU class the #44 of the Hollfield family took home the top honors, followed by the #56 car in second place. Both competitors ran on Proxes RR’s for the first time and finished multiple laps ahead of their nearest competitors. Recording lap times up to 2.761 seconds faster than the 3^rd place finisher.

This weekend it was made crystal clear that in the open tire classes there is a new player in town, the Proxes RR.

I just saw this and feel compelled to mention that the overall top-finishing Miata (by over a lap) was the Dewinter/DeWinter #86 in P7 running in full Spec trim on 4/32" RA1s that had stickers on them prior to enduro practice on saturday. Fast lap of 1:50.045, but was on schedule for a low 49 on the last lap of the race prior to catching a spun RX7 in T9.

No agenda, just saying.

Scott (DeWinter)

[Ron Alan]

I just saw this and feel compelled to mention that the overall top-finishing Miata (by over a lap) was the Dewinter/DeWinter #86 in P7 running in full Spec trim on 4/32" RA1s that had stickers on them prior to enduro practice on saturday. Fast lap of 1:50.045, but was on schedule for a low 49 on the last lap of the race prior to catching a spun RX7 in T9.

No agenda, just saying.

Scott (DeWinter)

Was this in your snowmobile powered Miata? We know SM cars ran in the 47's this year on RA1's...my guess is the RR is faster and hopefully last until they cord like the RA1...and be fast out of the box like the Hoosier Well if this is the case NASA made a good decision. Make sure you mount them correctly!

[hoverducky]

Was this in your snowmobile powered Miata? We know SM cars ran in the 47's this year on RA1's...my guess is the RR is faster and hopefully last until they cord like the RA1...and be fast out of the box like the Hoosier Well if this is the case NASA made a good decision. Make sure you mount them correctly!

You mean this one?

http://blog.caranddr...o-stroke-miata/

It is now Yamaha-powered and putting down maybe 115hp at the wheels. We set the fastest lap at the recent Chuckwalla LeMons race by almost 1.5 seconds. The car is bizarrely reliable, very quick, and very fun to drive. I figure on street tires (195-50-15 Dunlop Direzza Star Specs) it is over a second quicker than an SM. I don't know how much benefit it would gain from R compounds, but we might test it that way for giggles.

Anyway, it was like 95 degrees during the RDC enduro and the track had been slow all weekend.

Scott

[Doug007]

Just looked at the latest NASA rules (2013.1, January 2013) and no mention of the RR.

Still has RA-1 as the spec tire. Any word on when we will see the rule change and rules for use of RA-1s early in the season?

[philstireservice]

It's official - they have realized the slip up. It shouldn't be too long before thew rules are adjusted to read the RR as the Spec tire.

[Cy Peake]

So what's the general consensus on these tires?  Setup, pressures, recommended (by Toyo) rotation regimen?  I've got two sets that I put about 5 laps on a month ago.  I used the SM6 last season and was completely underwhelmed with the durability/longevity of those tires.  The grip wasn't much better than shaved RA1s so I thought I'd give the RR a try this season.

[tony senese]

First heat cycle golden lap is about lap 4 or 5, then it gets greasy and loses time every lap after that, so good to qual, but no so much to race.  Pressures very similar to RA-1 seem to work fine.

 

After sitting for a day or a week the tire levels out, never quite as fast as lap 4 but still faster than the ra-1.  We ran about 4 hours on the outside tires at NJMP Thunderbolt in a Spec E30 (BMW 318i, stock susp) and about 7.5 on the insides, the last hour was a bit tough and they did cord.

[Rob Burgoon]

Do follow the inside/outside mounting directions.  I didn't and my tires tore.  Even on the rear with our weak horsepower.  I couldn't believe it.

[Cy Peake]

Good to know, thanks.

[FTodaro]

Do follow the inside/outside mounting directions.  I didn't and my tires tore.  Even on the rear with our weak horsepower.  I couldn't believe it.

 

 

That does not give me a high degree of confidence. Did you
get any kind of a warning? When they failed was it hard to keep it under
control or did it just fall off time wise.

I have put 4 sessions on one set and one session on a second
set at Mid Ohio. It was very difficult not to grain them. A track notorious for
torturing new tires. You can grain any new soft tire there, The RR was easy to
grain and slow at Mid O. A track that likes Old hard tires.

 

[Rob Burgoon]

 

That does not give me a high degree of confidence. Did you
get any kind of a warning? When they failed was it hard to keep it under
control or did it just fall off time wise.

I have put 4 sessions on one set and one session on a second
set at Mid Ohio. It was very difficult not to grain them. A track notorious for
torturing new tires. You can grain any new soft tire there, The RR was easy to
grain and slow at Mid O. A track that likes Old hard tires.

 

 

 

I should clarify... The carcass split across the tire in about 2 sessions.  The tires did not fail.  I moved them to the correct positions and ran another race weekend on them after they split and they held together fine, but warm fuzzies they did not provide.

 

The set is being retired for lack of speed at this point.  The tires I had facing the right direction held together.

 

I hadn't heard of such issues with the pre-prod RRs, so I blew off the mounting directions.  Don't do that.  

[Todd Green]

As another data point, I mounted one set of mine correctly and the other with two of the tires facing the "wrong" direction.  Both were scrubbed and sat for 24+ hours.  No difference in them, no splitting/splice issues. This was at MMP.   Build dates were in 2013, I don't have the week handy, but can look it up.