11 replies to this topic

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Based on input from drivers at the Thunderhill Double Regional in late May plus a 97% yes vote to a survey of 2013 SMT entrants, effective immediately, SFR will be allowing the Toyo RR for SMT for the remainder of this season including the Sonoma Sprints in July.  This is the same tire that NASA requires.

 

The goal is to support SMT drivers with affordable, fun racing and we will monitor the usage of the RR for the remainder of the season to collect information for 2014.  Regional SMT entrants may use the Toyo RA1, Hoosier SM6 or Toyo RR, all in 205/50-15.

 

Cars running at Sonoma who want National points must run Hoosier SM6.

 

Note the SSM tire has NOT changed and remains only the RA1.

 

Thank you for your input!

[William Bonsell]

Just curious Brian..does this 97% yes vote indicate satisfaction with what the RR is delivering, or more to do with the ability to enter both SCCA or NASA without having to deal with the tire issue? Or maybe both? Seems like a very racer friendly decision.

[Ron Alan]

Just curious Brian..does this 97% yes vote indicate satisfaction with what the RR is delivering, or more to do with the ability to enter both SCCA or NASA without having to deal with the tire issue? Or maybe both? Seems like a very racer friendly decision.

No one for the most part have run the RR in SFR. Brian will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the main reason was the complaints of the costs to run the Hoosiers.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Driven by cost (in theory).  I disagree with it personally but we (try hard to) run a customer-oriented program here.  There are satisfied NASA drivers who have used the RRs however I don't know of much empirical data to date.  We're going to use the rest of '13 to figure it out, taking into account some other things coming down the pike that we'll be announcing soon!

[Juan Pineda]

Thanks to the SCCA board for implementing this rule change that will hopefully help contain the higher tire costs we have encountered this year! A few points for all:

 

1) We have a good amount of empirical data from Norcal NASA about the longevity and drivability of the RR's. By all accounts, the longevity is approaching that of the RA1's but with greater performance.

 

2) Performance vs. Hoosier is a harder call. My estimate is that the Hoosier will outperform the RR's, but at a higher cost. If you are willing to spend a kilobuck per weekend on tires (not me) then you will put new Hoosiers on every weekend for qual and 3 races and use the remains for practice. This is the approach that many top racers employ. (See this link: http://mazdaracers.c...break-in/page-2)

 

3) If you are inclined toward a more modest tire budget (me) then you will try RR's and probably run a few tenth's off of those on a higher Hoosier budget. That's life in racing: there is usually someone willing to spend more $. The great thing about our being able to run both RR's and Hoosiers this season is that we will get a lot of objective data to see what the tradeoffs are here -- $ and performance -- which will inform our decision for next year.

 

Zoom zoom!

 

 

[Edited: I'm researching the tire rotation point (4) as it appears the rotation issue may have been resolved.]

[Juan Pineda]

About RR tire delamination and diagonal rotation issues from last year, I asked Ron Cortez at AIM about the current status. Here is his reply:

 

"TOYO RR's should be switched by crossing if you want to follow the correct procedure. However, we have not seen an issue with the tires made in 2013.  It was only with a two week period of production the middle of 2012 that we say some, not all, have an issue.  The same tread issue was found on RA1's, R888's and Nittos of the same production dates!  So, it wasn't only the RR that experienced the problem."

[Johnny D]

Any Contingency $$$ ?? 

J~

[Brian Ghidinelli]

Thanks to the SCCA board for implementing this rule change that will hopefully help contain the higher tire costs we have encountered this year! A few points for all:

 

1) We have a good amount of empirical data from Norcal NASA about the longevity and drivability of the RR's. By all accounts, the longevity is approaching that of the RA1's but with greater performance.

 

2) Performance vs. Hoosier is a harder call. My estimate is that the Hoosier will outperform the RR's, but at a higher cost. If you are willing to spend a kilobuck per weekend on tires (not me) then you will put new Hoosiers on every weekend for qual and 3 races and use the remains for practice. This is the approach that many top racers employ. (See this link: http://mazdaracers.c...break-in/page-2)

 

3) If you are inclined toward a more modest tire budget (me) then you will try RR's and probably run a few tenth's off of those on a higher Hoosier budget. That's life in racing: there is usually someone willing to spend more $. The great thing about our being able to run both RR's and Hoosiers this season is that we will get a lot of objective data to see what the tradeoffs are here -- $ and performance -- which will inform our decision for next year.

 

Zoom zoom!

 

 

[Edited: I'm researching the tire rotation point (4) as it appears the rotation issue may have been resolved.]

 

 

My comment is more along the lines that I don't think perception and reality are quite lined up with the Hoosiers yet (out here). I scrubbed mine according to the procedures and on the test day I ran the same lap time on HC #11 at 4pm as I did on HC #5 at 9am.  Other people are cording them by HC #5 or 6.  To me, that suggests that there is something else going on besides pure tire characteristics.

 

I'm looking forward to how they perform and last.  The most important thing in my opinion is to be on one tire for our class.  

[Tom Sager]

My comment is more along the lines that I don't think perception and reality are quite lined up with the Hoosiers yet (out here). I scrubbed mine according to the procedures and on the test day I ran the same lap time on HC #11 at 4pm as I did on HC #5 at 9am.  Other people are cording them by HC #5 or 6.  To me, that suggests that there is something else going on besides pure tire characteristics.

 

I'm looking forward to how they perform and last.  The most important thing in my opinion is to be on one tire for our class.  

I think you have a better chance of getting the same laptime on cycles 5 & 11 than you do comparing cycle 1 or 2 to cycle 5.  

[Jim Drago]

I think a lot is track and temp dependent as well.. Last year we qualified for the Sprints on 6-8 session Hoosiers and went out on Stickers every session at the Runoffs. We will likley be on on session 5-6 for qualifying this years at Sprints and racing session 2-3

[john mueller]

Any Contingency $$$ ?? 

J~

 

YEP http://www.nasaprora...y_Info_Spec.pdf

 

Oh, sorry

[Johnny D]

I know that one.

Was wondering if AIM was going to do a little something something, providing you got the tire from him/AIM.

Haven't been following the SCCA RA1 conting, so....

J~