What's the attraction of bumpdrafting again?
Team Racing - The future of Spec Miata????
#161
Posted 08-01-2013 02:34 PM
#162
Posted 08-01-2013 02:55 PM
Danny, you are one of my favorite people in racing, you are a genuine great guy,
LUV U TOO MICHAEL!!!!
- MPR22 likes this
Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean Machinery | OPM Autosports | Rossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes |
2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ
1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year
#163
Posted 08-01-2013 03:01 PM
David, IMHO you are mistaken. If the Supreme court judge tells you that its OK for you to bump draft, and then someone protests it, it is IMHO irrelevant what is written in the statutes. There is an established precedent.
As Dave Wheeler alludes to above, and Skip Brock wrote about so eloquently in his response to the previous thread I started on http://mazdaracers.c...ing-discussion/, (see post #13) we are talking not only about "prosecutorial discretion", but now also about established precedence.
When I started the VIR Bump Drafting thread, I had an premonition of where this would lead to, the perfect storm of dedicated pusher cars and dedicated puller cars working in perfect synchronicity.
Danny,
That stuff has been going on for years. Just because the SCCA "sanctioned" some form of it at the Eastern Conference Races this year doesn't mean it is an escalation of the arms race. Hell Drago & Berry are artists at it. They also have the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy block down to an art. If i don't like it I better getting a dancing partner that I trust and trusts me. That second one is the more deadly of the two tactics and is absolutely legal in any rule book. They are so good at it sometimes you have to question if it was intentional, experience tells me it is. I am not sure what your endgame is with this thread. Let us know what you want to see, enforcement of the rules as written? Be careful of what you wish for.
#164
Posted 08-01-2013 03:07 PM
Bye the way, going back to the VIR bump drafting thread - which is very pertinent to this team racing discussion, http://mazdaracers.c...ing-discussion/, not only was the post #13 by Skip totally spot on, but Jim Creightons post #15 showed amazing foresight from both the desirability and the enforceability (coped and pasted here)
Danny, your opinion of bump drafting may change when you get to the Runoffs and some other driver with a team mate or two bump draft away from you and leave you sitting all by yourself wondering what happened. It's a lot of fun until others make you the victim of having no dance partner. I consider it a form of cheating, two drivers using something that is prohibited to gain an advantage over another.
I say decide a win or loss on the merits and ability of one car, one driver, not who has the most friends.
Until the GCR is changed to allow it specifically, it is intentional body contact. If I were operating Steward, you'd get a black flag and come tell me what is wrong with your vision. Once that happened a couple of times, bump drafting would be a thing of the past.
But, you are safe now since I am not nor do I want to be a steward. I would do your tech deal in SEDiv if you guys put something together. And if you do, be prepared to stay late!
Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean Machinery | OPM Autosports | Rossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes |
2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ
1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year
#165
Posted 08-01-2013 03:14 PM
Danny,
.................... I am not sure what your endgame is with this thread. ...........................
Michael, my end game is simple, what I want is a sensible rational debate involving the drivers in this class. As Drago said above, we will all race to whatever the rules are. I am content to race the way things are, but the way things are is changing. Some changes are good for the class, some are bad, and I would like to see a discussion on the impact to the class of the changes we are seeing.
Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean Machinery | OPM Autosports | Rossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes |
2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ
1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year
#166
Posted 08-01-2013 03:17 PM
Are you two sharing a room at The Runoffs?LUV U TOO MICHAEL!!!!
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
#167
Posted 08-01-2013 03:25 PM
At VIR the masses asked to be allowed to have nose to tail contact, that did not effect either car in a negative way.
Hmmm... the keyword here is "masses". What about the 15-20% that does not want it? GCR should apply to all or none, because bump drafting does affect "others" in a negative way. I don't like bump drafting in motorsports, and I don't care if we have it or not, but the rules have to be defined in order to avoid the protests.
As of right now you can end up with an absurd: I get overtaken while leading (not gonna happen soon), because the other 2 cars were bump drafting. Later I protest the physical contact throwing the GCR, but I can't win the protest as bump drafting was "agreed". Either the rules are correct, or the Stewards. And since the Stewards are there to execute the GCR you can't have both.
Anyway, bump drafting or not, I get the biggest kick passing others as my car is inferior on power. Imagine how good I will feel if I pass those pro motor bump drafters
#168
Posted 08-01-2013 03:27 PM
Danny,
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] They also have the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy block down to an art.
Hell, I don't even know what that is, yet I have mastered. If we had 1/16 the plans and strategies that people think we have, we would be pretty dangerous Two guys with half a brain, a little skill and good cars that race smart. If we weren't allowed to touch, that would be fine as well. We would be one of the first to execute a non touching drafting partnership that we often use to pull a car up the qualifying order. Not personalizing. Just funny.
Despite our opinions, what we want to do, how we race etc. Jim Creightons post is Very accurate. We are all one RFA away from a penalty or a dq. Again, I stress the need for a town hall as I want to know for sure what rules we are racing by as I am sure most hired teammates do as well
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
#169
Posted 08-01-2013 04:29 PM
the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy
I can't even imagine what this is.
#170
Posted 08-01-2013 05:03 PM
Can we get our own SM Specific GCR?
- Joe (dad) Jordan and Jim Drago like this
Blake Clements
http://www.blakeclements.com - Driver Coaching, Consulting, & Video/Data Analysis.
OPM Autosports/SP Induction Systems/X-Factor Racing/G-Loc Brakes/Traqmate/Bell Helmets
#171
Posted 08-01-2013 05:53 PM
I can't even imagine what this is.
sounds like a gay porn move or something?
- Keith Andrews likes this
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
#172
Posted 08-01-2013 07:02 PM
Bump drafting is great fun but maybe not so great for competition. I understand Danny's concerns about being waxed at The Glen. Team work is great when you are part of the team, not so much if you aren't. I think the occasional bump to assist a pass is good for clean racing.
A quality team like SAC and driver like Elivan doesn't need team orders to win. The win they had at the runoffs showed that. I don't like to lose but I usually lose to someone that beat me straight up.
#173
Posted 08-01-2013 07:18 PM
sounds like a gay porn move or something?
I think the official name for that move is the "flying Dutchman".
- Jim Drago likes this
Frank
TnT Racing
SCCA Ohio Valley Region
#175
Posted 08-01-2013 09:19 PM
I think the official name for that move is the "flying Dutchman".
I hope I have no idea what your are trying to say.
- FTodaro likes this
#176
Posted 08-01-2013 09:29 PM
Danny, there are also "established" GCR rules for rigging the rules in favor of some drivers, except rigging the rules require all drivers be "unanimous". I posted this "unanimous" rule change GCR rule information in the past and as usual those that want special rules to foster their personal goals want all Spec Miata drivers to play by their rules. Unanimous equals, showing no disagreement. According to the GCR rules the bump drafting rules that were changed that you talk about were required to be a unanimous decision. Not a majority decision, a unanimous decision. Good luck at your Runoffs meeting getting a unanimous decision by 100% of the Spec Miata drivers. Personnaly I don't care one way or the other about bump drafting. I look at bump drafting the same as I look at a so called sportsman shooting a deer from a tree stand (up in the air above a deers head where deer by habit do not look). An un-fair advantage for the shooter. You want discussion, this is discussion.
Bruce, as I have read video is required in Miata cup racing and drivers are required to cough up their video as requested if there is suspicion bump drafting took place. It works for them, it'll work for us. Everyone at the pointy end has video currently.
#177
Posted 08-01-2013 10:27 PM
That being said I like being able to bump draft and I think it adds an exciting element to our class and would hate to see it go away. I suppose I just need to race more often so I can be better race buddies with someone....that darn work and family combo gets me every year.
#178
Posted 08-02-2013 03:58 AM
Justin - your post pretty much sums up the dilemma we all face.
Danny
Danny Steyn Racing | DSR YouTube Channel
Danny Steyn Photography | Adept Studios | Ocean Machinery | OPM Autosports | Rossini Racing Engines | G-Loc Brakes |
2 x SCCA Runoffs Champ | 1 x NASA National Champ | 6 x June Sprints Champ | 10 x ARRC Champ
1 x SCCA Super Sweep | 2 x Triple Crown | 4 x Hoosier Super Tour Points Champ | 6 x Majors Points Champ | 5 x SEDiv Driver of the Year
#179
Posted 08-02-2013 04:15 AM
I don't think you will have much problem finding a partner nowI will say from my point of view as a driver who only races a few times per year, by far my biggest concern going into the runoffs is being able to find a fast partner to team up with.
Good post though, I can certainly see your point.
East Street Auto Parts
Jim@Eaststreet.com
800 700 9080
#180
Posted 08-02-2013 07:48 AM
That being said I like being able to bump draft and I think it adds an exciting element to our class and would hate to see it go away. I suppose I just need to race more often so I can be better race buddies with someone....that darn work and family combo gets me every year.
Statement pretty much sums up about 98% of every thread on this board...name the topic...bump drafting, parity, COTY, Tech-shed blah blah...etc. etc.
It ALL comes down to SEAT-TIME...if we all could quit our jobs and just race!
Jim Blaisdell
G$ Munson Driver Coaching Student/Client
jblaisdell65@gmail.com
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users