189 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

What's the attraction of bumpdrafting again?

[Danny Steyn]

Danny, you are one of my favorite people in racing, you are a genuine great guy, 

 

LUV U TOO MICHAEL!!!!

[MPR22]

David, IMHO you are mistaken. If the Supreme court judge tells you that its OK for you to bump draft, and then someone protests it, it is IMHO irrelevant what is written in the statutes. There is an established precedent.
 
As Dave Wheeler alludes to above, and Skip Brock wrote about so eloquently in his response to the previous thread I started on http://mazdaracers.c...ing-discussion/, (see post #13) we are talking not only about "prosecutorial discretion", but now also about established precedence. 
 
When I started the VIR Bump Drafting thread, I had an premonition of where this would lead to, the perfect storm of dedicated pusher cars and dedicated puller cars working in perfect synchronicity.

 
Danny, 
 
That stuff has been going on for years.  Just because the SCCA "sanctioned" some form of it at the Eastern Conference Races this year doesn't mean it is an escalation of the arms race.  Hell Drago & Berry are artists at it.  They also have the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy block down to an art.  If i don't like it I better getting a dancing partner that I trust and trusts me.  That second one is the more deadly of the two tactics and is absolutely legal in any rule book.  They are so good at it sometimes you have to question if it was intentional, experience tells me it is.  I am not sure what your endgame is with this thread.  Let us know what you want to see, enforcement of the rules as written?   Be careful of what you wish for.

[Danny Steyn]

Bye the way, going back to the VIR bump drafting thread - which is very pertinent to this team racing discussion, http://mazdaracers.c...ing-discussion/, not only was the post #13  by Skip totally spot on, but Jim Creightons post #15 showed amazing foresight from both the desirability and the enforceability (coped and pasted here)

 

 

 

Danny, your opinion of bump drafting may change when you get to the Runoffs and some other driver with a team mate or two bump draft away from you and leave you sitting all by yourself wondering what happened. It's a lot of fun until others make you the victim of having no dance partner. I consider it a form of cheating, two drivers using something that is prohibited to gain an advantage over another.

 

I say decide a win or loss on the merits and ability of one car, one driver, not who has the most friends.

 

Until the GCR is changed to allow it specifically, it is intentional body contact. If I were operating Steward, you'd get a black flag and come tell me what is wrong with your vision. Once that happened a couple of times, bump drafting would be a thing of the past.

 

But, you are safe now since I am not nor do I want to be a steward. I would do your tech deal in SEDiv if you guys put something together. And if you do, be prepared to stay late!

 

[Danny Steyn]

Danny, 

 

....................  I am not sure what your endgame is with this thread.  ...........................

 

Michael, my end game is simple, what I want is a sensible rational debate involving the drivers in this class. As Drago said above, we will all race to whatever the rules are. I am content to race the way things are, but the way things are is changing. Some changes are good for the class, some are bad, and I would like to see a discussion on the impact to the class of the changes we are seeing. 

[Jim Drago]

LUV U TOO MICHAEL!!!!

Are you two sharing a room at The Runoffs?

[AW33COM]

At VIR the masses asked to be allowed to have nose to tail contact, that did not effect either car in a negative way.

 

Hmmm... the keyword here is "masses".  What about the 15-20% that does not want it?  GCR should apply to all or none, because bump drafting does affect "others" in a negative way.  I don't like bump drafting in motorsports, and I don't care if we have it or not, but the rules have to be defined in order to avoid the protests.

 

As of right now you can end up with an absurd: I get overtaken while leading (not gonna happen soon), because the other 2 cars were bump drafting.  Later I protest the physical contact throwing the GCR, but I can't win the protest as bump drafting was "agreed".  Either the rules are correct, or the Stewards.  And since the Stewards are there to execute the GCR you can't have both.

 

Anyway, bump drafting or not, I get the biggest kick passing others as my car is inferior on power.  Imagine how good I will feel if I pass those pro motor bump drafters

[Jim Drago]

Danny, 
 
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] They also have the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy block down to an art.

Hell, I don't even know what that is, yet I have mastered.      If we had 1/16 the plans and strategies that people think we have, we would be pretty dangerous Two guys with half a brain, a little skill and good cars that race smart. If we weren't allowed to touch, that would be fine as well. We would be one of the first to execute a non touching drafting partnership that we often use to pull a car up the qualifying order. Not personalizing. Just funny.

 

Despite our opinions, what we want to do, how we race etc. Jim Creightons post is Very accurate.  We are all one RFA away from a penalty or a dq.  Again, I stress the need for a town hall as I want to know for sure what rules we are racing by as I am sure most hired teammates do as well

[RussMcB]

 
the slow down pass the guy in the middle back to the trail guy

I can't even imagine what this is.

[Blake Clements]

Can we get our own SM Specific GCR?

[Jim Drago]

I can't even imagine what this is.

sounds like a gay porn move or something?  

[Keith Andrews]

Bump drafting is great fun but maybe not so great for competition.   I understand Danny's concerns about being waxed at The Glen.  Team work is great when you are part of the team, not so much if you aren't.  I think the occasional bump to assist a pass is good for clean racing.

 

A quality team like SAC and driver like Elivan doesn't need team orders to win.  The win they had at the runoffs showed that.  I don't like to lose but I usually lose to someone that beat me straight up.

[FTodaro]

sounds like a gay porn move or something?  

I think the official name for that move is the "flying Dutchman".

[Tom Sager]

I think the official name for that move is the "flying Dutchman".

I have no idea if you are correct but I do admire the courage and confidence that you show simply by weighing in on the matter.     

[Michael Novak]

I think the official name for that move is the "flying Dutchman".

I hope I have no idea what your are trying to say.

[Bench Racer]

Danny, there are also "established" GCR rules for rigging the rules in favor of some drivers, except rigging the rules require all drivers  be "unanimous". I posted this "unanimous" rule change GCR rule information in the past and as usual those that want special rules to foster their personal goals want all Spec Miata drivers to play by their rules. Unanimous equals, showing no disagreement. According to the GCR rules the bump drafting rules that were changed that you talk about were required to be a unanimous decision. Not a majority decision, a unanimous decision. Good luck at your Runoffs meeting getting a unanimous decision by 100% of the Spec Miata drivers. Personnaly I don't care one way or the other about bump drafting. I look at bump drafting the same as I look at a so called sportsman shooting a deer from a tree stand (up in the air above a deers head where deer by habit do not look). An un-fair advantage for the shooter. You want discussion, this is discussion.  

 

 

 

Bruce, as I have read video is required in  Miata cup racing and drivers are required to cough up their video as requested if there is suspicion bump drafting took place. It works for them, it'll work for us. Everyone at the pointy end has video currently.

[Justin Elder]

I will say from my point of view as a driver who only races a few times per year, by far my biggest concern going into the runoffs is being able to find a fast partner to team up with. If I can't find a fast partner equal to my ability in a timely manner in qualifying, I won't be at the front of the grid. I feel at a slight disadvantage solely because I don't have a teammate, and that doesn't seem quite right. I certainly agree teammates or not the guys at the front of the grid would stay the same regardless, but the class is so close at the front that having a teammate that you know well at an event like the runoffs can make the difference between starting on the pole or starting 15th. But it is what it is, and I haven't heard of or thought of any effective and reasonable way to curb it. I'm more concerned with it in qualifying than the race, I think teammates simply driving away from the rest of a highly competitive field is still very much the exception rather than the rule in most scenarios.

That being said I like being able to bump draft and I think it adds an exciting element to our class and would hate to see it go away. I suppose I just need to race more often so I can be better race buddies with someone....that darn work and family combo gets me every year.

[Danny Steyn]

Justin - your post pretty much sums up the dilemma we all face. 

[Jim Drago]

I will say from my point of view as a driver who only races a few times per year, by far my biggest concern going into the runoffs is being able to find a fast partner to team up with.

I don't think you will have much problem finding a partner now

Good post though, I can certainly see your point.

[JBlaisdell]

That being said I like being able to bump draft and I think it adds an exciting element to our class and would hate to see it go away. I suppose I just need to race more often so I can be better race buddies with someone....that darn work and family combo gets me every year.

 

Statement pretty much sums up about 98% of every thread on this board...name the topic...bump drafting, parity, COTY, Tech-shed blah blah...etc. etc.

 

It ALL comes down to SEAT-TIME...if we all could quit our jobs and just race!