140 replies to this topic

[DrDomm]

Anything over $40k is simply supply and demand pricing, and you're not getting anything extra for that.

 

I believe that.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

yes we know where the money goes into these cars.All im saying is this is the reason we arent getting as many new drivers in the class,and loosing some drivers. I know that I dont go to some races because I dont have a snowball chance in hell of getting to the podium.Three years ago my car and myself was able to get on the podium on every weekend.So scca has lost out on my money because of that. It is upsetting to me as a driver because I know its my car and not me. It also upsets me that a guy that I beat for years goes out and buys a 30K car and now i cant come close to him anymore.They say its because they learned to drive better but when you watch them they still dont know the correct racing line.

 

So now im at the point were I have to make a choice to spend the money to build a new car or pick another class.All im saying is this kind of money for an SM is going to kill the class and i hate to see that happen because this is the best class by far !

[davew]

Its kinda like this, How many 25 year old young men could work a full time job 8-10 hours a day and come home and practice tennis a bit at the local tennis court and ever hope to compete with Raphael Nadal in a tennis match...  There are probably some young guys out there whgo have the tallent but if they dont have the time and resources its impossible.  

 

I am amazed that the caveman knows what tennis is, much less how to spell that guys name.

[DrDomm]

Do I think you could get a bare bones front runner for 25K.  Yes, but it won't be "new", fancy nor look like Mazda just rolled it off the assembly line, but it will get the job done.

 

I think the number should be $20K for that bare bones competitive used car, but we're in the ballpark.  Again, I think that's fair.  People shouldn't feel the need to spend the extra $20K+ on all the bells and whistles.

 

I also think $10-15K should get you a fun, mid-pack car.  I get beat by them all the time. 

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I have a great idea,this should be a fun one !

 

Lets put a claim on some parts like motors, rear ends, exhaust and intakes to keep the cost down like in some other racing.

 

For example

 

motor          $4,000

rear end      $800

Intake          $200

exhaust        $300

 

Now i go to a race and I want to claim a motor from someone else's car i pay him 4k for it and he has to sell it to me or he gets some kind of penalty. Same with any other part on the list. This would keep the price down because nobody wants to loose a $7,000 motor for 4k etc.... 

 

Just having fun throwing some goofy ideas out there,let the games begin 

[Keith Andrews]

You can build a car for $20k with a pro motor if you did it all yourself and didn't need a fancy paint job, and I think you could be at the front of the field if you built it right. However, you aren't going to start with all new parts and you'll need to replace parts as they wear throughout the season. So factor in maintenance for that first year. THAT's where the $30k price tags are coming from.

 

Also, you can get by on a set of budget gauges. But do you want a budget fire bottle, or would you be smart to spend more $ on a supression system? Do you want a data system and camera? Do you want a center net and a halo seat (hint: YES you do!)? This is where the $40k price tags are coming from.

 

Anything over $40k is simply supply and demand pricing, and you're not getting anything extra for that.

 

This pretty much sums up my car.  $3500 donor, pro motor, required suspension, Custom cage, 120000 mile trans, axles, A-arms, differential rebuild, existing brakes.  I did all the suspension clean up (paint), brake rebuild, instrument wiring (not pretty but they work), center net, Kirkey containment seat, hand held fire extinguisher.  I have added fluff over time, data, video etc.

 

I totally agree with what the pro builders are saying on cost and pricing.  

 

I'm with Domm though this does not make the class less attractive.  The fact that the consumables continue to be so inexpensive make your on going costs very low, (relatively for racing) IMHO.  By consumables I mean brake components, Mazdaspeed support, doors, and fenders lol.

[James York]

I understand that this is a part of racing ( R&D) and with R&D comes $. But IMO it also can and will hurt this class. The reason I say this is, because if everyone could afford a Ferrari there would be tons of them on the road. But they can't so they drive a Camry and some can't afford a Camry so they take the bus. My point is,we have 30k to 40k cars out there and for someone starting out see's this and thinks there is no way in hell I can afford that so it keeps them out of the sport (our class). Nobody gets into racing and says I'm fine with a 6-10k car and fine with being in the top 20 to 15 positions. They get into racing for the excitement and competition and the hope of one day being on the podium. But they never will because they can't afford a competitive car less then 20 to 25k.

That's one of the reasons I got into this class was the competition and the price of the class. When I started a well tuned stock motor can get you in the top 5 and top 3. Now a 115hp is a joke and your lucky to get into the top 15 with it maybe top 10 if your a good driver. I just wish there was some way to keep the prices from getting out of control so we can get some new drivers to join in and get the car counts back up we're they used to be.

IMO this is some of the reason car counts are down and the reason a lot of good and great drives left sm.



Just thinking out loud,not trying to get anyone upset !

Can't disagree with anything you said here.  Unfortunately, the reality of free market economics is a harsh wake up call for some.  And since the competition is very high and good in SM, that is why people of all financial levels choose to compete.  The attractiveness of the class draws the Ferrari owners and with it, their pocketbooks.

 

All any of us can do is work harder and/or smarter than the guys in front of us.

[Ron Alan]

Anything over $40k is simply supply and demand pricing, and you're not getting anything extra for that.

As simple an explanation as it gets...don't like capitalism?...GET OUT 

 

Anyone reading this forum should realize...the MAJORITY of SM drivers started and are racing for far less than the numbers thrown around here. AND to that, many are top 10% wherever they run...its still 90% the nut behind the wheel...and that will never change!!!

 

Newbies and Rookies...don't be discouraged and run what you can afford...when your ego becomes bigger than your pocketbook, start cooking meth

[G.Obadia]

Paging Mike Collins,

 

Perfect thread to push SM5!

[Bruce Wilson]

Anyone reading this forum should realize...the MAJORITY of SM drivers started and are racing for far less than the numbers thrown around here. AND to that, many are top 10% wherever they run...its still 90% the nut behind the wheel...and that will never change!!!

 

 

Nobody wants to hear that on a rant thread Ron

[James York]

yes we know where the money goes into these cars.All im saying is this is the reason we arent getting as many new drivers in the class,and loosing some drivers. I know that I dont go to some races because I dont have a snowball chance in hell of getting to the podium.Three years ago my car and myself was able to get on the podium on every weekend.So scca has lost out on my money because of that. It is upsetting to me as a driver because I know its my car and not me. It also upsets me that a guy that I beat for years goes out and buys a 30K car and now i cant come close to him anymore.They say its because they learned to drive better but when you watch them they still dont know the correct racing line.

 

So now im at the point were I have to make a choice to spend the money to build a new car or pick another class.All im saying is this kind of money for an SM is going to kill the class and i hate to see that happen because this is the best class by far !

What development have you done in 3 years?  That guy you raced "instantly" developed in a leap with a 30K car.  That was probably a big gain in performance.  I know if I had done no development on my car over the last 3 years, I would be probably down 10 spots in finish order.

 

3 or 4 years ago you were 6 seconds off the pace at the Runoffs.  If you haven't improved your car since then, I wouldn't expect you to podium ever at a well attended event as you are getting left behind.  Development is a constant work.

[Rob Burgoon]

Paging Mike Collins,

 

Perfect thread to push SM5!

 

#1 rule in racing.  Never join an empty class if you like racing.  Not unless you're bringing 9 friends with you.

[Ron Alan]

#1 rule in racing.  Never join an empty class if you like racing.  Not unless you're bringing 9 friends with you.

Or you think others will be impressed by all those checkered flags on your car!

[Ron Alan]

Nobody wants to hear that on a rant thread Ron

Maybe i should start a rant thread to rant about the ranters...  

[Rob Burgoon]

Or you think others will be impressed by all those checkered flags on your car!

 

It's certainly a viable way to swindle local sponsors.

[Charlie Hayes]

Some people never touch, look, fix, update, SETUP, dyno, prep, or test their car before a race and expect to win and usually dont.

 

Some people touch, look, fix, update, SETUP, dyno, prep, test, clean, and come completely prepared with their car to win and usually come very close. If they do it in a nice shiny 35+k car then make a thread about it because its not fair. 

[Rob Burgoon]

*cough* 99

[davew]

Even at $10k for a car plus $1k per weekend, this will never be a poor mans sport.

 

But I do not see the demise of Spec Miata the way some of you do. 70 cars at the Runoffs, 350 different drivers entered National races, by far the most popular class at Regional races (at least around here). My shop is fuller than ever.

 

What I do see is a shift in demographics, and myself and other shops may be a portion of the cause for the shifting. Dwindeling are the home built budget cars. Gone are the home built SUPER budget guys. Instead we have more guys coming from the Porsche/BMW crowd. They saw how much fun we where having, and brought their wallets into Spec Miata. They have the financial means to spend  BMW money, they are just doing it with a Miata. For the exact same reasons as made this class so popular; cost effective, reliable, fun to drive, great competitors and close competition.

 

Will a 100% driver in a 80% car beat a 80% driver in a 100% car? Almost every time. But when a 100% driver wants to beat another 100% driver it may come down to the better car. And at that point it may come down to the best prep/parts, which costs money.

 

Dave

[LarryKing]

Development is a constant work.

 

Even in a spec class? I mean, how much development goes on in SRF?

[Charlie Hayes]

*cough* 99

I want to build a new 1.6 the NB is nice but the old car had so much character.