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U.S. Majors Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Western Conf, 4/26


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#21
john mueller

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Squeaky wheel get the grease IMO.

Drivers at the event need to say something.

Podium got to tech, I want my car teched.

If you get IDK ??, then bring it up in drivers meeting, chief tech, PM Butch

J~

 

 

You're funny Johnny, what you suggest would normally work.  But come see how it's run down here and who is influencing SM tech and see if any oil is applied where it's needed.


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#22
Johnny D

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You're funny Johnny, what you suggest would normally work.  But come see how it's run down here and who is influencing SM tech and see if any oil is applied where it's needed.

 

Sorry, not trying to be nieve. Just thinking in my simple world if you PM Butch Kummer here and told him, he's a member. There may be a phone call that would change things for Sunday.

 

Or we just fall back to, oh their just volunteers and it can't be helped or we need an added cost for tech?

BS IMO, I think those were yours comments as well. Funny seems like you think there's nothing you can do but upset?

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#23
Mark Drennan

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I guess one way to keep tech fair is to not check anyone to protect those/team/shop suspected of playing outside the lines...  Just sayin'

 

SCCA Majors is the top rung of the amateur racing ladder right now, this is not good for our class.  Yes, I asked the question suspecting what the answer was going to be...  I've heard what a joke it is.  Yes, I'm the NASA guy but this is in my backyard and it's total BS.

 

Trolling at it's best.  Pretty BS comments John, IMO.  "suspected of playing outside the lines"  Who the F are you talking about?  By insinuating people are cheating and not naming names/teams, you're basically accusing everyone of cheating.  I'm confident the cars/people/teams running up front come prepared to be tech'd - weighed, restrictors, whistled...whatever. 

 

Sure, I wish more tech was done so people like you couldn't speculate BS.  But just because it wasn't, doesn't mean some conspiracy exists to protect cheating drivers/teams.  From what I saw and did myself, the top cars were top prepped with solid drivers and that's why we were all so close.

 

I love NASA too, but their tech can suck balls too (e.g. zero teardowns at Nationals...cough, cough).  I've seen minimal tech in my NorCal/SFR region by both NASA/SCCA.  SCCA tech at Road Atlanta was good (whistled top cars).  Maybe you can share with me/us what makes SoCal NASA so special when it comes to tech?  Are you whistling cars in SoCal NASA?    

 

Haven't even hit "Post" and already regretting responding...can't believe I let myself get hooked by an internet troll again!


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#24
Bad Rusty

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Trolling at it's best.  Pretty BS comments John, IMO.  "suspected of playing outside the lines"  Who the F are you talking about?  By insinuating people are cheating and not naming names/teams, you're basically accusing everyone of cheating.  I'm confident the cars/people/teams running up front come prepared to be tech'd - weighed, restrictors, whistled...whatever. 

 

Sure, I wish more tech was done so people like you couldn't speculate BS.  But just because it wasn't, doesn't mean some conspiracy exists to protect cheating drivers/teams.  From what I saw and did myself, the top cars were top prepped with solid drivers and that's why we were all so close.

 

I love NASA too, but their tech can suck balls too (e.g. zero teardowns at Nationals...cough, cough).  I've seen minimal tech in my NorCal/SFR region by both NASA/SCCA.  SCCA tech at Road Atlanta was good (whistled top cars).  Maybe you can share with me/us what makes SoCal NASA so special when it comes to tech?  Are you whistling cars in SoCal NASA?    

 

Haven't even hit "Post" and already regretting responding...can't believe I let myself get hooked by an internet troll again!Brennan,

 

 

Mark, you, Charlie And the entire TFB team are doing everything you can to compete in SM, don't take this stuff to.heart.  keep.winning and disregard the rest.  Ask Drago, there are a lot of "haters" looking to stir it up.

 

You're better than that.


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#25
john mueller

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Trolling at it's best.  Pretty BS comments John, IMO.  "suspected of playing outside the lines"  Who the F are you talking about?  By insinuating people are cheating and not naming names/teams, you're basically accusing everyone of cheating.  I'm confident the cars/people/teams running up front come prepared to be tech'd - weighed, restrictors, whistled...whatever. 

 

Sure, I wish more tech was done so people like you couldn't speculate BS.  But just because it wasn't, doesn't mean some conspiracy exists to protect cheating drivers/teams.  From what I saw and did myself, the top cars were top prepped with solid drivers and that's why we were all so close.

 

I love NASA too, but their tech can suck balls too (e.g. zero teardowns at Nationals...cough, cough).  I've seen minimal tech in my NorCal/SFR region by both NASA/SCCA.  SCCA tech at Road Atlanta was good (whistled top cars).  Maybe you can share with me/us what makes SoCal NASA so special when it comes to tech?  Are you whistling cars in SoCal NASA?    

 

Haven't even hit "Post" and already regretting responding...can't believe I let myself get hooked by an internet troll again!

 

Everything you say is correct Mark so don't regret it...  Yes, I'm trying to start a fight, just not with you our your team.  I've always respected you and think Charlie is one of the coolest kats on the planet.  You have integrity just for called me out on my trolling.

 

I'm specifically talking to the historical lack of tech on the cars that frequent the shop that the CalClub SM Leader/Director owns.  That's not speculation, that's fact.  What I'm insinuating may indeed be BS but without the proof (tech) who really knows.  I doubt there is anything wrong with the front running cars but with no tech allows for trolls like me to spout sh!t.

 

SoCal NASA determines what will be inspected and which finishing positions will be held days prior top the event.  Those plans change if something just doesn't look right (ie, Scott Philips in March 2013 at AutoClub Spdwy).

 

I'm mostly pleased with the level of tech at the 2013 NASA Championships of the top 4 finishing cars.  I did make an error by not pulling a car into tech to potentially tear-down prior to it ultimately being DQ'd on a technicality.  The data I had (dyno pulled on top four cars, most of them multiple times over the event) did not warrant going beyond what we did...  I wanted to tear-down but didn't feel it was worth it, and yes it was my call.


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#26
Derrick Ambrose

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I think they left SM alone and went after B-Spec the last two majors.  At thill they were going down the checklist for everything which I had not seen at any of the majors before, fuel test ports, etc, etc on top of the usual weights.  For Buttonwillow we got the AIM solo units dropped into the cars as well.

 

-Derrick


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#27
Kyle Keenan

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Edit: NVM.


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#28
Caveman-kwebb99

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I'm specifically talking to the historical lack of tech on the cars that frequent the shop that the CalClub SM Leader/Director owns.  That's not speculation, that's fact.  What I'm insinuating may indeed be BS but without the proof (tech) who really knows.  I doubt there is anything wrong with the front running cars but with no tech allows for trolls like me to spout sh!t.

 

 

I'm mostly pleased with the level of tech at the 2013 NASA Championships of the top 4 finishing cars.  I did make an error by not pulling a car into tech to potentially tear-down prior to it ultimately being DQ'd on a technicality.  The data I had (dyno pulled on top four cars, most of them multiple times over the event) did not warrant going beyond what we did...  I wanted to tear-down but didn't feel it was worth it, and yes it was my call.

 

Does this just have something to do with Palm trees or did Breathless PROformance move to california???

 

To Mark Drennan, if you feel you being called a cheater you must be doing something RIGHT, so just keep on doing it!  

 

ON the NASA champs I am sure the winner would have like to have been torn down for one reason and one reason only!  To make it legit to our tough community that he won with Legit Equipment.  Nasa championships need to have tear downs its that simple...

 

Bottom line both clubs need more tech at all races.  I understand the regional guy doesnt want to be torn down, but there are so many simple tech things that dont require tear down, it just requires a committment by the club, whether it be monitary or man power resources.  Dynos can and will be deafeated, a wistler cannot be defeated when done correctly, gear ratios checks cannot be defeated short of paying cash to the guy calculating it, dialectric fuel test would be tough to be defeated and is easy and quick.  


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#29
Jamz14

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I agree with Kyle 100% !

 

I would add that the one major piece that is missing is that there should be consideration of the ECU. It is ridiculous that with the amount of brain power that exist here that a ECU program hasn't been put in place. We have seen examples of them being doctored, they are one of the biggest performance gains to be had, it is easy to do, and yet no formal program in place. I have heard of two objections to an ECU program, delicate pins, and guys that have their fuel trimmed out so tight that a small curve change risks their engine. Of the two, I find value only in the pin argument. And that could be easily overcome with a pigtail adapter where you are plugging in and out of the adapter and not the harness (This also address any concern of the ECU being hard to get to on the 99s). Anyone trimmed out so tight that a minor curve shift risks their engine has the ability to retrim to the new ECU and is doing so anyway with atmospheric variables found on any given race day.


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#30
Johnny D

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James top 3.

 

2:09.059

2:09.061

2:09.159

 

Are they ? or the hugh jump top 2:09.9 in 4th make it's clear. :) 

J~


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#31
Caveman-kwebb99

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Running similar times, or having similar power on a dyno does NOT mean there is not cheating going on!!!

 

there are plenty of ways to get 130hp out of your engine but not many ways to do it legaly...  so a dyno proves what? that everyone that didnt cheat the dyno has similar numbers...  it hasnt proved a single thing about legality one way or the other. 

 

Thinking like that is harmful to our class.  

 

This pointed at nobody in particular...


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#32
Johnny D

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Ya, I can see that, that would be harmful.

the whole class running 130, that would suck,

Better to have the rule like they are, where everyone legal at 129, 128, 127, 126. :)

JK

J~


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#33
Jamz14

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Johnny, if that is how people want it, then I am fine. I will boost the car to whatever power level regardless of the rules just so we can run the exact same times as the front runners. Better yet, why not implement weight penalties for the winners until they slow enough for everyone to catch up. That is certainly cheaper than have to add mods or optimize the engine, or waste my time keeping everything lubed and free, ETC.

 

Johnny, you know better than this. You imply that I believe the front runners were cheating. I made no such comment to that nor do I believe it. I was strictly speaking about all the effort we go to in order to ensure that there is a reverse gear, correct gear ratios, correct compressions, and we completely ignore one of the easiest ways to add performance. And no one is afraid that the ECU will be checked because the likelihood of it being checked is almost nil. And the solution is easy!!!! We even had a garage here in SOCAL that tried to show how easy it was to modify and even threatened that they were going to do it if no one was going to pay attention. Still no action. That seems to be a hole in tech wide enough to get American Muscle through.


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#34
Johnny D

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Yep, I agree,

Didn't say they we're cheating, Just a :) .

Maybe I'm a troll like Mark said starting stuff.

But hey, thanks for posting. :wave2:

J~


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#35
Charlie Hayes

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James top 3.

 

2:09.059

2:09.061

2:09.159

 

Are they ? or the hugh jump top 2:09.9 in 4th make it's clear. :) 

J~

 

Also forgot Drennan who retired early 2:09.099


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#36
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then i would have to say that the guy in 4th makes it abundantly apparent that he was nearly a second slower then the other 4...

 

at atlanta top 12 were within .5 in qualifying, as were top 9 in saturday race...  What is going on the west coast?


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#37
Johnny D

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What is going on the west coast?

 

No tech, haven't you been following along ?? :)

 

OMG, 4 racers did it, or the rest didn't, but will never know.

J~


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#38
Charlie Hayes

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:buried: 


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#39
Jim Drago

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Ok.. If I am sifting through this correctly ..


First and foremost.. I am happy that their is drama and complaints and it has nothing to do with me,my team and the rest of the world :)

It seems like John has an issue with Louis and Rush? I'm pretty sure all the Barber cars run Rush engines?


I agree on tech and wish the world was a great place but...

How about this for majors tech?

 

post qualifying
You weigh each car after qualifying..
You whistle the top three after qualifying
You check restrictor plates on the top 10 qualifiers.

Post race
You pull in the top three cars and three random cars
You whistle the top three and the randoms and check plates again..
You check fuel on all 6
You pull intake and exhaust manifolds on top three cars...
Check gear ratios
check 3-4 more random non evasive items..

IMO, that is about as in depth as we can really expect less a protest. Most would be tickled with that level of tech. I know I would.

Less integrity and sportsmanship ( maybe a little fear), that wouldn't do much and there are MANY who could field a car that would pass all of that easily and still have a substantial advantage on the field. Sorry, but that is just the truth. Personally, I don't think this is going on, but some think I am naive.

I am not saying we shouldn't do these things and we shouldnt tech, we should. IMO, the more experienced guys ( not just front runners) can tell when people have an advantage that seems "substantial" compared to other top guys.  In this situation, the only real solution is a protest.


Jim


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#40
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Jim, why wouldn't an ECU check be on your list?


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