82 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

Ok, but what about johns idea for a coordinated and organized tech program that crosses organizations? And what about an ecu program that is easier than shipping to kansas?

[Johnny D]

So apples and oranges orgs.

Paid vs volunteers.

If SCCA can't get them to come out or do it tech, maybe give NASA a call.

 

I don't think there was cheating.

I don't think the ECU is really an issue.

If your not doing everything that's legal, I could see how it looks. But it's " I don't know what I don't know " that kills you.

Any top team would put you/driver to shame, get a complete tear down and come up clean.

 

It's the whole package, crew/driver/car

A good quote in the 1.6 speed secret thread.

Come up again, I'll look over your program.

J~

[Jamz14]

Nevermind

[Johnny D]

Sorry, you seem upset that there wasn't and about the ECU.

You can write, send a letter to where it counts.

 

Could only be BW tech, could only be tech with SM at BW, since B-spac got some, IDK, Wasn't there.

 

Don't really want to touch the rest.

All good example of not top prepped drivers, cars, track experience, etc.

J~

[Caveman-kwebb99]

If John wants a compliance program then lets see one!

 

Nobody is stopping either club form doing it, and IMO i think its way more powerful if a driver doesnt know what to expect from one club to another...  Now if nasa would just make a deal with Hoosier the world would be all good!

[Jamz14]

Sorry, you seem upset that there wasn't and about the ECU.

You can write, send a letter to where it counts.

 

Could only be BW tech, could only be tech with SM at BW, since B-spac got some, IDK, Wasn't there.

 

Don't really want to touch the rest.

All good example of not top prepped drivers, cars, track experience, etc.

J~

Not upset Johnny. Sorry, I don't write letters and I don't file tech protests.

[Jim Drago]

So apples and oranges orgs.

Paid vs volunteers.

If SCCA can't get them to come out or do it tech, maybe give NASA a call.

 

I don't think there was cheating.

I don't think the ECU is really an issue.

If your not doing everything that's legal, I could see how it looks. But it's " I don't know what I don't know " that kills you.

Any top team would put you/driver to shame, get a complete tear down and come up clean.

 

It's the whole package, crew/driver/car

A good quote in the 1.6 speed secret thread.

Come up again, I'll look over your program.

J~

 

Johnny is Charbonneau writing your posts again?

[Johnny D]

Johnny is Charbonneau writing your posts again?

 

Darn you figured it out. 

 

Do you like it, no video or anything ?

J~

[TVANCE13]

I don't typically post, but will make an exception in this case.  I started racing karts about 12 years ago. I remember one race I came to the grid with old tires and the guy next to me had on stickers.  I gave him a hard time.  After ribbing him, he asked me "Did you come to race or did you come to win"  It always stuck with me and changed the way I looked at racing moving forward.  

 

The guys that run up front in SM unload their cars with the expectation that they can win.  And do so legitimately.  They spend countless hours preparing for that result.  They run private test days on NEW tires, run multiple sets of tires over a race weekend, share data with their team and spare no expense on equipment. They prepare to win.  

 

The difference between racing and winning in SM is huge (as is the bill).  If you come to race, it's a fun class with great guys.  If you come to win in THE toughest class in the country then you need to prepare (and typically spend) accordingly.  I picked this class for Tyler because in karts we learned, you will only be as fast as the guys you race.  Was it humbling in the beginning?  You bet.  DId I think people were cheating.  Of course.  But the drive to reach the front is what kept me coming back.  To me winning in a non-compliant car defeats the whole reward of winning.  If you want a trophy that bad there are plenty of other classes out there.  

 

To put last weekends race in perspective - On saturday we made 2 miniscule changes to the car that completely dialed us out of contention.  On Sunday we went back to what we had and could only manage to achieve 3rd…He got out of the car and said it was the hardest race he had driven in the last 3 years.  A quote - "I was so on the edge through Taladega I thought I was going to die nearly every lap".  It ain't easy to win in SM.  That's why I gave up the car to my kid long ago.  

 

As for tech - The more the better.  

[john mueller]

I don't typically post, but will make an exception in this case.  I started racing karts about 12 years ago. I remember one race I came to the grid with old tires and the guy next to me had on stickers.  I gave him a hard time.  After ribbing him, he asked me "Did you come to race or did you come to win"  It always stuck with me and changed the way I looked at racing moving forward.  

 

The guys that run up front in SM unload their cars with the expectation that they can win.  And do so legitimately.  They spend countless hours preparing for that result.  They run private test days on NEW tires, run multiple sets of tires over a race weekend, share data with their team and spare no expense on equipment. They prepare to win.  

 

The difference between racing and winning in SM is huge (as is the bill).  If you come to race, it's a fun class with great guys.  If you come to win in THE toughest class in the country then you need to prepare (and typically spend) accordingly.  I picked this class for Tyler because in karts we learned, you will only be as fast as the guys you race.  Was it humbling in the beginning?  You bet.  DId I think people were cheating.  Of course.  But the drive to reach the front is what kept me coming back.  To me winning in a non-compliant car defeats the whole reward of winning.  If you want a trophy that bad there are plenty of other classes out there.  

 

To put last weekends race in perspective - On saturday we made 2 miniscule changes to the car that completely dialed us out of contention.  On Sunday we went back to what we had and could only manage to achieve 3rd…He got out of the car and said it was the hardest race he had driven in the last 3 years.  A quote - "I was so on the edge through Taladega I thought I was going to die nearly every lap".  It ain't easy to win in SM.  That's why I gave up the car to my kid long ago.  

 

As for tech - The more the better.  

 

 

Awesome post Tom !!!  

 

 

 

If John wants a compliance program then lets see one!

 

Nobody is stopping either club form doing it, and IMO i think its way more powerful if a driver doesnt know what to expect from one club to another...  Now if nasa would just make a deal with Hoosier the world would be all good!

 

I intend to work on this over the next year or so...

[Ron Alan]

I don't typically post, but will make an exception in this case.  I started racing karts about 12 years ago. I remember one race I came to the grid with old tires and the guy next to me had on stickers.  I gave him a hard time.  After ribbing him, he asked me "Did you come to race or did you come to win"  It always stuck with me and changed the way I looked at racing moving forward.  

 

The guys that run up front in SM unload their cars with the expectation that they can win.  And do so legitimately.  They spend countless hours preparing for that result.  They run private test days on NEW tires, run multiple sets of tires over a race weekend, share data with their team and spare no expense on equipment. They prepare to win.  

 

The difference between racing and winning in SM is huge (as is the bill).  If you come to race, it's a fun class with great guys.  If you come to win in THE toughest class in the country then you need to prepare (and typically spend) accordingly.  I picked this class for Tyler because in karts we learned, you will only be as fast as the guys you race.  Was it humbling in the beginning?  You bet.  DId I think people were cheating.  Of course.  But the drive to reach the front is what kept me coming back.  To me winning in a non-compliant car defeats the whole reward of winning.  If you want a trophy that bad there are plenty of other classes out there.  

 

To put last weekends race in perspective - On saturday we made 2 miniscule changes to the car that completely dialed us out of contention.  On Sunday we went back to what we had and could only manage to achieve 3rd…He got out of the car and said it was the hardest race he had driven in the last 3 years.  A quote - "I was so on the edge through Taladega I thought I was going to die nearly every lap".  It ain't easy to win in SM.  That's why I gave up the car to my kid long ago.  

 

As for tech - The more the better.  

Dont be a stranger Tom! Your perspective is dead on! The respect and comradery that is present at this time on the west coast makes it very difficult to think anyone is cheating up anything. Across the age spectrum, know one is taken for granted and hand shakes and "great drives" are handed out with sincerity!

 

That said, human nature is what it is. Beyond narcissism, the desire to achieve acceptance, success or fame,  sometimes blinds the weak to overlook what they know isnt right...be it business, politics or sports. There needs to be an active form of checks and balances that all can count on and it would seem SCCA is falling on its face right now to provide this...at least on the west coast.

 

There is non-compliance going on all over the place...somethings that matter, some that dont. Somethings people care about...some they dont. But I'm pretty confident most would just like consistancy in tech application. And it would be nice to figure out a way to tech what seems to be what a lot of whispering is about these days...ECU's and metal coating to name a couple. But i'm pretty confident anyone who thinks they have the ability and the car to be in the top 10 at Laguna this year is going to show up confident in any tear down process, My 

[Craig Berry]

I don't typically post, but will make an exception in this case.  I started racing karts about 12 years ago. I remember one race I came to the grid with old tires and the guy next to me had on stickers.  I gave him a hard time.  After ribbing him, he asked me "Did you come to race or did you come to win"  It always stuck with me and changed the way I looked at racing moving forward.  
 
The guys that run up front in SM unload their cars with the expectation that they can win.  And do so legitimately.  They spend countless hours preparing for that result.  They run private test days on NEW tires, run multiple sets of tires over a race weekend, share data with their team and spare no expense on equipment. They prepare to win.  
 
The difference between racing and winning in SM is huge (as is the bill).  If you come to race, it's a fun class with great guys.  If you come to win in THE toughest class in the country then you need to prepare (and typically spend) accordingly.  I picked this class for Tyler because in karts we learned, you will only be as fast as the guys you race.  Was it humbling in the beginning?  You bet.  DId I think people were cheating.  Of course.  But the drive to reach the front is what kept me coming back.  To me winning in a non-compliant car defeats the whole reward of winning.  If you want a trophy that bad there are plenty of other classes out there.
 
To put last weekends race in perspective - On saturday we made 2 miniscule changes to the car that completely dialed us out of contention.  On Sunday we went back to what we had and could only manage to achieve 3rd…He got out of the car and said it was the hardest race he had driven in the last 3 years.  A quote - "I was so on the edge through Taladega I thought I was going to die nearly every lap".  It ain't easy to win in SM.  That's why I gave up the car to my kid long ago.  
 
As for tech - The more the better.

GREAT POST!

[Bench Racer]

And it would be nice to figure out a way to tech what seems to be what a lot of whispering is about these days...ECU's and metal coating to name a couple. But i'm pretty confident anyone who thinks they have the ability and the car to be in the top 10 at Laguna this year is going to show up confident in any tear down process, My 

Not to argue, but a valid point IMHJ. When is the last time within the SCCA anyone knew the internals of a transmission during tech were on the bench or the last time an ECU was teched? 

[Jim Drago]

Not to argue, but a valid point IMHJ. When is the last time within the SCCA anyone knew the internals of a transmission during tech were on the bench or the last time an ECU was teched?

Trans opened at the runoffs in 06,08,09 and this year in my car
ECu's teched last year at the NJ majors

[Bench Racer]

06, 08, 09 are history. I know of two illegal Miata trans from approx 06 which is also history.

ECU's at NJ majors last year is 1 point race data, it's a good start.

[Jim Drago]

06, 08, 09 are history. I know of two illegal Miata trans from approx 06 which is also history.

ECU's at NJ majors last year is 1 point race data, it's a good start.

 

Maybe you should volunteer... you are retired and have more time than most  Funny EVERYONE knows of this illegal XYZ that "someone" ran.. My opinion is name the names, or say nothing.  The he said, she said stuff gets really old. Also not fair top people who did well in 06,07( I certainly was not one of them).. it is easy to accuse and know "x", but you are spray painting crud on the top six from 06/07 with your accusations. Of course not all were doing this... just two.. just enough not to be anyone in particular but cast BS on all.   With all due respect, if you didn't see the disassembled box yourself, you don't know Jack!  I know the guy that knows the guy that did it, well that is just hearsay.   That goes for everyone, not just dew

[Brian Ghidinelli]

As for tech - The more the better.  

 

+1!  After Race 1 at Thunderhill, I spoke with the Conference tech steward and asked for more tech on Sunday.  I retired early so nobody looked at me and I don't know if anything additional was done (hey- that was my plan all along!) but if we drivers ask for it, we will get it (eventually).  

 

On the other side of the coin, we have to realize there are some practical limits.  Space, staff and of course time.  If we came to the track for two races per weekend and we had dedicated tech staff (a la MX5 Cup or World Challenge/etc), there would be no shortage of oversight and tech.  But at TH, for example, there were 300 entries in 7 groups and 28 classes who all needed tech.  Could more be done?  Sure - but it's not always going to be for us even if we are a more competitive class.

 

As for Jamz saying you don't write letters and you don't file protests: "if you don't vote, you don't have the right to complain".  Suggesting ideas or bitching here accomplishes ZERO.  There is a procedure for making your opinion heard and it's called crbscca.com.

[Jamz14]

Agreed. I am good with the way things are.

[Bench Racer]

I know the guy that bought the two illegal Spec Miata transmission and I know the guy that had the job to rebuild the transmissions. You know the two guys also. You most likely know exactly who bought the transmissions and from exactly who and exactly who was hired to rebuild the transmisions. Accusing, hearsay are words you use to cleanse your site. When you talk of potential over the line gray areas illegalities no one accuses you of anything . Gee, how come? I had a short conversation with a pointy end Spec Miata driver at the track one day about his illegal decal placement on his car. Would you like me to openly provide you with the details of that little story. Made the same comment to a Spec Miata driver this wekend and his wasn't even disguised as a decal. Why don't you call out everyone that comments about potential tech items? This thread sort of trailed of to improving tech items.

[Mark Drennan]

I know the guy that bought the two illegal Spec Miata transmission and I know the guy that had the job to rebuild the transmissions. You know the two guys also. You most likely know exactly who bought the transmissions and from exactly who and exactly who was hired to rebuild the transmisions. Accusing, hearsay are words you use to cleanse your site. When you talk of potential over the line gray areas illegalities no one accuses you of anything . Gee, how come? I had a short conversation with a pointy end Spec Miata driver at the track one day about his illegal decal placement on his car. Would you like me to openly provide you with the details of that little story. Made the same comment to a Spec Miata driver this wekend and his wasn't even disguised as a decal. Why don't you call out everyone that comments about potential tech items? This thread sort of trailed of to improving tech items.

 
I'm with Jim on this Bench.  Instead of saying "the guy", just reveal the person you're talking about so the people who don't know who "the guy" is won't speculate that any one of "the other guys" are the person you're talking about.  Otherwise, don't even bring it up. 
 
In the spirit of full disclosure, my shock was non-compliant at the '08 Runoffs and as a result, now we all have a published shock spec...you're welcome.  The shock was refurbished by Bilstein in preparation for the championships and was supposed to be to SM specs...wasn't even close.