535 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

For the record ... Perhaps it is time drop we didn't allow the 99 up cars etc..
Sm started on what 2002? The 99 up came in at end of 2004 season. So the who's( nudged by Mazda) that let these cars in are not even racing sm now? I can't think of any? I have been around longer than most and it is even before my time . So 10 plus years with NB cars, 2-3 without? Seems like class has had NB's 5x longer than racing without them. 

[Danny Steyn]

Yes Drago, you are spot on there

 

BUT when I joined the class in 2008, and I asked a LOT of drivers, prep shops, people in the know, what year of car should I get, I was told by 100% of them to get a '99. Reasons were give:- easier to drive, better recovery, more torque, yada yada. I doubt that ANYONE entering Spec Miata in the past 8 years has been encouraged to get a 1.6!!

 

That tells you everything. And with regards to my friend Todd Buras and his exceptionally fast KK 1.6! Todd is flat out a wheel man and that particular car is a demon!! BUT WHEN HAS 1 BEEN AN EFFECTIVE SAMPLE SIZE???? 

 

IMO when the top 3 at Sebring and other Majors events are 1.6's, then I will be the first to scream that we have given them too much and its time to reel them back. Or myself and others will start to consider building them. Isn't that what we want???? Once we see that any of the four versions currently allowed have an equal chance, surely that's when we have the happiest class and the largest numbers.

 

Or am I living in LALA land, and no matter what we do, there will always be the vocal minority screaming from the rooftops that they need MORE???????

[Steve Scheifler]

...
Or am I living in LALA land, and no matter what we do, there will always be the vocal minority screaming from the rooftops that they need MORE???????

Well yes, of course, but that doesn't mean the rest is wrong.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

Yes Drago, you are spot on there

 

BUT when I joined the class in 2008, and I asked a LOT of drivers, prep shops, people in the know, what year of car should I get, I was told by 100% of them to get a '99. Reasons were give:- easier to drive, better recovery, more torque, yada yada. I doubt that ANYONE entering Spec Miata in the past 8 years has been encouraged to get a 1.6!!

 

That tells you everything. And with regards to my friend Todd Buras and his exceptionally fast KK 1.6! Todd is flat out a wheel man and that particular car is a demon!! BUT WHEN HAS 1 BEEN AN EFFECTIVE SAMPLE SIZE???? 

 

IMO when the top 3 at Sebring and other Majors events are 1.6's, then I will be the first to scream that we have given them too much and its time to reel them back. Or myself and others will start to consider building them. Isn't that what we want???? Once we see that any of the four versions currently allowed have an equal chance, surely that's when we have the happiest class and the largest numbers.

 

Or am I living in LALA land, and no matter what we do, there will always be the vocal minority screaming from the rooftops that they need MORE???????

Most of the 1.6 people I see complaining barely race anyway. Face the facts folks, if you only race a couple of races a year, you are going to suck. There are a couple exceptionally talented drivers that are exceptions to that, but they are in the minority.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Most of the 1.6 people I see complaining barely race anyway. Face the facts folks, if you only race a couple of races a year, you are going to suck. There are a couple exceptionally talented drivers that are exceptions to that, but they are in the minority.

And the reason we don't is because we don't want to waist our money knowing we don't have a chance to get into the top ten. When I know I'm a way better driver then that and that's a fact. I drove both cars and I know the diff. Between both and I know I could be a lot faster in the 99 then my car. Yes there was a diff. In hp and TQ and they had the same car prep but even with 5 more hp and 5 lbs of TQ in my car I would still pick the 99 it is easier to drive. I just don't have the money for a new car. I am willing to put 2-5k into my car to bring it up to pair. That's a lot cheaper then building a 20 to 30k car.

[chris haldeman]

Rest assured there is no way the 1.6 will ever need or ever get 5/5!!!!! Same prep level the 99 is a better car. Restrictor plate insures that. 1.6 can, does and will win with current rules. Just takes a lot more prep and money. If I was too build a top shelf 1.6 today it would cost more than 2 competive 99's used. I'll do it but why bother Todd,Tom and Jim have already. I am currently preparing 2 1.6 for Daytona so get the rules ready I'm in!!! They just don't need any help top shelf compared too top shelf. Very tiring that every thread turns into the same crap!! Short on money?? Take a year off at 7 events a year times 2500 per weekend and build a new car. Now tell me about how you are top prep and a great driver spending less than 2500 per race???

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Rest assured there is no way the 1.6 will ever need or ever get 5/5!!!!! Same prep level the 99 is a better car. Restrictor plate insures that. 1.6 can, does and will win with current rules. Just takes a lot more prep and money. If I was too build a top shelf 1.6 today it would cost more than 2 competive 99's used. I'll do it but why bother Todd,Tom and Jim have already. I am currently preparing 2 1.6 for Daytona so get the rules ready I'm in!!! They just don't need any help top shelf compared too top shelf. Very tiring that every thread turns into the same crap!! Short on money?? Take a year off at 7 events a year times 2500 per weekend and build a new car. Now tell me about how you are top prep and a great driver spending less than 2500 per race???

Chris,I understand what you are saying but you missed what I said. I said the cars had the same level of prep,never said they were the top level of prep. Sorry it's a lot easier sitting on the other side of the fence and saying they are equal when there is no way in hell are. There is nothing on this sight or any data that shows they are equal. If there is why isn't anyone sharing it with us,oh because there is none !

Another question I have is where we're the 1.6s at Laguna ? I thought I heard that track favors the 1.6 cars. I don't know if that is true or not,but if it is where we're they? Or did all the 1.6 guys that showed up didn't have a top level 1.6 or were they just bad drivers ? And what was the highest none 99+ car finishing position ?

My problems with the fact that I am pressured to sell my car and build another to be competitive. I thought this was a spec class and all cars should be equal but there not. And if you guys keep saying the are then why are some guys (you) building a 1.6 for Daytona when there is parity? If there is parity then any year car should have a chance to win on any diff. Track

Am I wrong ?

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

I'm not saying there is a big diff.its a small one TQ out of the corners and if we can fix that issue I would be happy as pigs in s@&$ .

The 1.6 is great with an open track but just add one car to mess your momentum in one corner and it will take you a lap to make it up. Now change it up, if a 1.6 guy messes up in a corner the 99+ cars would just walk away without any problems.

Sorry for my ranting but I'm on some great meds from knee surgery and I'm bored,nothing personal !

[Dickweed]

Chris,I understand what you are saying but you missed what I said. I said the cars had the same level of prep,never said they were the top level of prep. Sorry it's a lot easier sitting on the other side of the fence and saying they are equal when there is no way in hell are. There is nothing on this sight or any data that shows they are equal. If there is why isn't anyone sharing it with us,oh because there is none !

Another question I have is where we're the 1.6s at Laguna ? I thought I heard that track favors the 1.6 cars. I don't know if that is true or not,but if it is where we're they? Or did all the 1.6 guys that showed up didn't have a top level 1.6 or were they just bad drivers ? And what was the highest none 99+ car finishing position ?

My problems with the fact that I am pressured to sell my car and build another to be competitive. I thought this was a spec class and all cars should be equal but there not. And if you guys keep saying the are then why are some guys (you) building a 1.6 for Daytona when there is parity? If there is parity then any year car should have a chance to win on any diff. Track

Am I wrong ?

sell the NA.. Take a year off and build a NC then you'll be on the other side of the next fence. As the NC will be here before you know it.

[steveracer]

sell the NA.. Take a year off and build a NC then you'll be on the other side of the next fence. As the NC will be here before you know it.

Been wrestling with this myself...

[chris haldeman]

Too win in sm takes no mistakes in most regions. I get that at Nelson where there are next too zero entries this might not be true but in regions like mine if I make one small mistake I'm toast too any car it is true in any car. !!! Stop racing save money and build a good car. The days of home built stuff is long gone in the largest and highest competed class in Amature rachng

[chris haldeman]

You could just race and be happy with your results compared too the huge wallets you race against

[Dickweed]

Been wrestling with this myself...

NC donors are out there at $6-7k Just sayin

 

http://clovis.craigs...4725517596.html

 

http://pittsburgh.cr...4704776788.html

 

DW

[chris haldeman]

You are a dickweek!!!

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Lmao !!!

But Dickweed has an awesome avatar !!!

[Dickweed]

You are a dickweek!!!

 

 

I would think a smart business plan would be to embrace whats coming and get ahead of the game.

 

BTW It's "Dickweed"

[Mike Babcock]

Maybe the parity discussion needs a rest...  how about some rule changes that would apply to everyone?

 

Rule Delete:

"No balancing, blue printing, lightening, polishing, or other modification of moving parts of the engine is permitted."

 

This rule seems subject to a variety of interpretations... especially in the balancing & blue printing department.  Be it by cherry-picking through the parts bin, or machine... if it involves a scale, it's balancing.  We all know it's happening, it can't be policed, and it's a rule that caters to professional engine builders.  I'd rather buy just 4 of each, let the machinists do their thing and end up with the lightest set possible within the weight specs... than to buy 50 of each, weigh them all out, and try to pimp the other 46 on eBay.  This rule should be shot in the back of the head.

 

Rule Add:

I'd like to see offset bushings on the upper control arms allowed.  This is a cheap solution to facilitate a more usable range combination of camber adjustment and ride height.

[FTodaro]

As a class we need to sit down and discuss the future direction of this class, and maybe change some long held beliefs.

 

Over time the class has and will mature, as noted above the old days of running a junk yard motor and winning on the weekend are gone. You have to embrace reality. We have some strict rules about what is open and what has to stay strictly Mazda parts, While Mazda may not favor that, there are a few places that costs can be reduced by after market parts. (piston rings comes to mind)

 

There are some part modifications, that can affect not performance but endurance. Transmissions and Hubs come to mind. 

 

Allow part modification if its aim is endurance

 

Allow part modification if it does not involve significant cost

 

allow any part modification if the above are involved and it applies to safety.

 

My point, in general i do not think we should be so opposed to rule modifications going forward, the class is changing and the rules should change with it. 

 

Its not going to stay the same for ever.

 

 

[MPR22]

You could just race and be happy with your results compared too the huge wallets you race against

And that may be the biggest thing people yearning for yester year don't get. The home built no tire budget guys are racing against well funded TEAMS.

And BTW Chris and Drago are right. Top prep vs top prep the cars are scary similar. Just noone wants to spend the money to keep a 1.6 in perfect condition. So do we give it a handout and make it cheaper to race at the top, sure. Will it make it competitive with and average driver at the wheel? No.

Butch said it himself, he's not good enough to drive the 1.6 to beat a simlar prep 99. It requires a superior driver,

We are building 1.6s for Daytona for one reason, rev limiters. We will test and if we are wrong back to the 99 . Or maybe 99 /01 pusher combination., you are racing well funded teams, that will bring the best weapon to suit the track. SM is a victim of its own popularity, it has brought money and talent to the class

[LarryKing]

 

Now tell me about how you are top prep and a great driver spending less than 2500 per race???         

 

My home track is Mid-O. 45 minute drive home each night. Regional entry fee $400, gas maybe $50, pack a lunchmeat samich and some waters $5-10, amortizing brakes and other consumables maybe $100. Total $560

 

Even if I bought new HoHos each weekend (I don't, I use them 12-16 HCs) add another $700. Total $1,260

 

Please tell me where I should spend the other $1,240 to $1,940 each event to achieve "Top Prep".

 

 

Someone tell me what would be bad about making money spent less of a factor in SM. Is there a way to remove at least some advantages of spending. Is that not what the class was designed as, a "drivers class"?