535 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

1

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Lol... Franks car is perfectly legal, and currently it runs just as well as those that had compression. Jim's at mid Ohio was perfectly legal for the majors it was untouchable witnessed by all.

If dewhurst had already inatituted his mandated track performance torq tracing software I could show your graphs and pie charts with my Ross Perot pointer.

I think dewhurst was running for vice president back then???

[LarryKing]

Sick Ross Perot reference dude.

[Waterboy]

 

 

In response to water boy,

 

To my knowledge, SCCA is not trying to create sub-classes on a national level so i doubt SCCA would want a national SSM (1.6 class) and I wouldn't want to drive in that class anyways.  I know that my car and my driving ability are not 100% at the moment, but it has been a greater accomplishment to me this past year if I can still see those fast guys in front of me or hang on to their rear bumper, instead of them disappearing after the first few laps like how it was for me one year ago.  To me, it would not be as fun driving in SSM and achieving a podium every race. I would rather finish top 35 in a 70 car major race than finish 1st out of 6 cars. I cannot speak for other 1.6 drivers.  

If there were only 6 cars I would completely agree, I would not want to race that class either.  I don't think that is what you would see though.  In WDC there are generally as many or more SSM cars and the field is just as competitive as the SM class, it is just all 1.6's.  It has not hurt our entry numbers at all.  Each class usually has 30 plus each and every weekend, and at times have both been maxed out at 50 each.  Not going to happen in all regions but it is a logical solution that could easily take hold and be successful.

[Danny Steyn]

I urge the SMAC and CRB to be cautious. Right now the masses are still upset about Whistlegate and about STR gate. Get the new rule for the STR out into the wild and let us absorb it, BEFORE you do any additional car equalization DO NOT IMMEDIATELY go a ne release and untested and undiscussed rules change to the masses. We are still wounded. We need to heal before we can absorb another injury..

I would suggest SMAC and CRB make a statement that says...... "We are actively looking into some additional rules changes to further equalize the class and encourage more grass roots drivers to join SM. We will do significant testing across several builders and prep shops to obtain multiple data points, examine data to support our proposals and we will discuss this openly and transparently with the class before releasing our new rules package"

To make a performance rules adjustment now might just be the tipping point that sends several drivers to sit out or move to other classes. Transparency is critical in this journey. Dyno traces should show at least 10 pulls of each car, so we can see the range, not just traces that are cherry picked to support the intent.

[Danica Davison]

If there were only 6 cars I would completely agree, I would not want to race that class either.  I don't think that is what you would see though.  In WDC there are generally as many or more SSM cars and the field is just as competitive as the SM class, it is just all 1.6's.  It has not hurt our entry numbers at all.  Each class usually has 30 plus each and every weekend, and at times have both been maxed out at 50 each.  Not going to happen in all regions but it is a logical solution that could easily take hold and be successful.

 

In the southeast, especially in Florida, there just aren't that many 1.6's anymore.  I don't think its because they aren't showing up, its just that they are all moving to 1.8's like todd buras did, as well as david johnson is currently getting a 99 built, who is now the fastest 1.6 guy down here at the moment. There are however, a lot of 1.6 cars running in ITA trim, not sure if they would like to downgrade and move to SSM though. Might work just great in WDC region or other regions, but I am still pretty sure SCCA doesn't want to make it a national class as they are trying to consolidate classes on a national level and not create more (being family with a member of the BOD). Id rather just get more power and run with the 99's + IMO. 

[Danica Davison]

I urge the SMAC and CRB to be cautious. Right now the masses are still upset about Whistlegate and about STR gate. Get the new rule for the STR out into the wild and let us absorb it, BEFORE you do any additional car equalization DO NOT IMMEDIATELY go a ne release and untested and undiscussed rules change to the masses. We are still wounded. We need to heal before we can absorb another injury..

I would suggest SMAC and CRB make a statement that says...... "We are actively looking into some additional rules changes to further equalize the class and encourage more grass roots drivers to join SM. We will do significant testing across several builders and prep shops to obtain multiple data points, examine data to support our proposals and we will discuss this openly and transparently with the class before releasing our new rules package"

To make a performance rules adjustment now might just be the tipping point that sends several drivers to sit out or move to other classes. Transparency is critical in this journey. Dyno traces should show at least 10 pulls of each car, so we can see the range, not just traces that are cherry picked to support the intent.

 

I agree Danny, the testing should not be taking shortcuts, and real testing should be done by several other motor builders as you said, and not just the ones that have been in "question/non compliant" or however you want to put a name to it. But remember, that all takes time and Homestead/Sebring Majors are only 2 months away... should we have the rules in place by the start of the Majors in January?? Or is it better to take the necessary time if need be and implement the mandatory rules after the start of the majors season?  Similar to when the SM7 mandatory rule came out in March of this year...

[ner88]

John

Having just moved to central Florida and with years of experience in SM and having spent several years on the New England board,

I think there is great opportunity being missed in not having SM2 on a regional level, very simple rules, SM without NB cars.

It can run as a race within the SM race.

SSM requires different car prep which requires money, not to mention an exhaust that's no longer available.

[FTodaro]

I urge the SMAC and CRB to be cautious. Right now the masses are still upset about Whistlegate and about STR gate. Get the new rule for the STR out into the wild and let us absorb it, BEFORE you do any additional car equalization DO NOT IMMEDIATELY go a ne release and untested and undiscussed rules change to the masses. We are still wounded. We need to heal before we can absorb another injury..

I would suggest SMAC and CRB make a statement that says...... "We are actively looking into some additional rules changes to further equalize the class and encourage more grass roots drivers to join SM. We will do significant testing across several builders and prep shops to obtain multiple data points, examine data to support our proposals and we will discuss this openly and transparently with the class before releasing our new rules package"

To make a performance rules adjustment now might just be the tipping point that sends several drivers to sit out or move to other classes. Transparency is critical in this journey. Dyno traces should show at least 10 pulls of each car, so we can see the range, not just traces that are cherry picked to support the intent.

Agree 100%

 

i looked on line cannot find it,  can anyone tell me how to find out who is on the CRB and SMAC? Just in case i want to express comment?

 

If someone hands me a directive of head change, wt change, plate change, its not going to be a fun start to 15.

 

I assume any proposals will be out for public comment.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

frank please reference CRBSCCA.com

 

they see every letter you send.

 

its so easy a cave man can do it!!!!!! Gieco insurance can save you 15% in 15 minutes

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I do think in a way having rewards wieght would make this class a hell of alot of intersting fun...

[LarryKing]

 

We are still wounded. We need to heal before we can absorb another injury.

 

I too am feeling fragile and vulnerable, and just need a hug.

[Waterboy]

John

Having just moved to central Florida and with years of experience in SM and having spent several years on the New England board,

I think there is great opportunity being missed in not having SM2 on a regional level, very simple rules, SM without NB cars.

It can run as a race within the SM race.

SSM requires different car prep which requires money, not to mention an exhaust that's no longer available.

This I disagree with.  Why have two classes with the exact same rules, doesn't make much sense.  Most of the drivers I have seen run SM2 couldn't win in the best prepped 99 out there,  top drivers in SSM absolutely could.  SM2, again in my opinion, was created for those that didn't want to spend the time or money necessary to be competitive but still wanted to win.  SSM was created for those that wanted tighter rules.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I too am feeling fragile and vulnerable, and just need a hug.

Courtesee of the ambassador 

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Only fragile people are even cleared to race Chick Cars...

[James York]

I do think in a way having rewards wieght would make this class a hell of alot of intersting fun...

 

The hard part to balance would be getting a bunch of rewards weight slapped on you for winning a poorly attended major (aka the Colorado Majors) then going to a big event and getting waxed because you are carrying 50 extra pounds.

 

Rewards weight would work well in something like MX5 cup though where its the same drivers (mostly) running the one series of races.

[James York]

I agree Danny, the testing should not be taking shortcuts, and real testing should be done by several other motor builders as you said, and not just the ones that have been in "question/non compliant" or however you want to put a name to it. But remember, that all takes time and Homestead/Sebring Majors are only 2 months away... should we have the rules in place by the start of the Majors in January?? Or is it better to take the necessary time if need be and implement the mandatory rules after the start of the majors season?  Similar to when the SM7 mandatory rule came out in March of this year...

 

Weight and plates is something I think the CRB can implement at anytime during the season if we need an adjustment.  Those are simple changes.  For me, the club needs to quickly decide:

 

1)  What rule change, if any, around the blending of the plunge cut

2)  What compensation, if any, to the 1.6 to improve its performance

3)  What compensation, if any, to the NA 1.8 

 

Since 1 and 2 might require significant work, the SMAC and CRB need to resolve that as quick as possible to allow racers time to get their cars in line.  If 3 is just a plate change, that is second priority.

 

Any weight or plate changes to the 99+ could be a see as we go into 2015, or when more time is at hand to get additional data.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

The hard part to balance would be getting a bunch of rewards weight slapped on you for winning a poorly attended major (aka the Colorado Majors) then going to a big event and getting waxed because you are carrying 50 extra pounds.

 

Rewards weight would work well in something like MX5 cup though where its the same drivers (mostly) running the one series of races.

 

I dont disagree... maybe rewards weight starts after qualifying and increases throughout and resets after the full weekend?

[ner88]

I can understand your push towards SSM as it is very successful at Summit.

But, it ends there, its pretty much dead everywhere else.

Yes, SM2 has the same rules as SM but the key is no NB cars.

As been said many times, NA cars are not competitive in SM.

Try and sell your NA car, who's going to buy it? everyone wants a NB.

Why make guys run ITA just to be away from the NB cars.

Give the NA cars a chance to be competitive within their own class.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Weight and plates is something I think the CRB can implement at anytime during the season if we need an adjustment.  Those are simple changes.  For me, the club needs to quickly decide:

 

1)  What rule change, if any, around the blending of the plunge cut

2)  What compensation, if any, to the 1.6 to improve its performance

3)  What compensation, if any, to the NA 1.8 

 

Since 1 and 2 might require significant work, the SMAC and CRB need to resolve that as quick as possible to allow racers time to get their cars in line.  If 3 is just a plate change, that is second priority.

 

Any weight or plate changes to the 99+ could be a see as we go into 2015, or when more time is at hand to get additional data.

 

I think #1 is as easy as make a spec and go.

 

#2 will take serious effort to dyno and track test.

 

#3 is tough as there are so few of them

 

weight and plates and performace upgrades should all be based on what the 99 is today, it is the benchmark like it or not. 

 

We dont need to fix what is not broken, adjust others to what is known on the 99 and if we need to make mid year adjustments to correct or counter correct to get it even closer.