535 replies to this topic

[FTodaro]

Believe it or not that car is all new under that bodywork,shocks,control arms,bushings,motor,trans,etc.... And was align. And setup by one of the best. So don't let it fool ya, I know !

For the record, I did the last alignment on the 17 and was the one that installed his motor. I would say Kyle is right and i have personal knowledge of the situation.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

as I remeber it and Mueller can correct if I say this wrong, last time NASA did this type of things they did not use top prepped cars they were all supposedly mid level prep, which I am unsure what that really means.  

 

To me this must be done with top level prep cars of each model and all driven by the same exact driver back to back to back with same HC tires at the same pressures etc, with same base setup on the cars. Tested on the track not on some dyno somewhere.

 

To do this right it needs to have over sight.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

For the record, I did the last alignment on the 17 and was the one that installed his motor. I would say Kyle is right and i have personal knowledge of the situation.

 

Oh yeah but Frank lets not let this revelation of Truth get in our way of a story of what Top Prep in a 1.6 really is! 

 

Facts are this Brians car is not top Prep! it certainly isnt the POS that alot might think it is either.  Lets go back to the other Bigger Fact, Brian Murdick can flat drive a car with 4 flats on it better then most people can drive with proper iniflation. With all the dents in the body of that car one would think he hits something everyweek... I dont think there has been a new dent in that car in the last 3 years???

[Ron Alan]

Mazda, NASA and SCCA are currently forming a testing plan to address parity.

Dates and or timeline would be nice??? For what season? And what cars? If changes to the current head rules(SSR/STRgate)have been agreed upon...when will that be announced?

 

All parties involved here owe it to those outside the circle(customers and members)to give us an announcement date! Cars are sitting collecting dust right now. No one wants to piss money away if they guess wrong on any new direction. And some have assumed there will be an open debate once things are announced before anything is final-ed...which of course stretches out the process more. Make a decision and lets move on...no debate. To many people involved to not feel things will be done in good faith...I for one will not scream and yell(this time!)depending and how things affect me and the current car i own. 

 

Lets go gentlemen!

[Steve Scheifler]

as I remeber it and Mueller can correct if I say this wrong, last time NASA did this type of things they did not use top prepped cars they were all supposedly mid level prep, which I am unsure what that really means.

To me this must be done with top level prep cars of each model and all driven by the same exact driver back to back to back with same HC tires at the same pressures etc, with same base setup on the cars. Tested on the track not on some dyno somewhere.

To do this right it needs to have over sight.

People frequently talk about how different the cars are to drive, and require different setup. I have a VVT and swapped between it and a 1.6 a couple times last weekend. Different yes, but didn't seem as much as many say. But that was crappy Gateway. In any case I agree, top & legal (if there are any 😙) cars and drivers with experience in both.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I have driven all but the 1.6, so 99, 01, 97...

 

Setups were all the same driving the 97 was tougher but not because of the setup, i believe the car being lighter makes it a bit twichier just MO..  converselty drivng the 01 was a tad easier then even the 99 it was a tad stiffer in the chassies and it carries a bit more wieght down low.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Sorry Frank I got some bad info !

For the record, I did the last alignment on the 17 and was the one that installed his motor. I would say Kyle is right and i have personal knowledge of the situation.

Now why did you go and do that for ?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Sorry Frank I got some bad info !




Now why did you go and do that for ?

 

Why do we often share data when asked nicely, why do we all pitch in when someone has a problem, why do we all sit around a stupid camp fire when its freezing out drinking beer and having a cook out.

 

You know why because we all like each other and we want to beat each other at everyones best level, then sit around and bs about it for hours on end!  This is why we are SM racers

[Tom Sager]

Mazda, NASA and SCCA are currently forming a testing plan to address parity.

Which might be useful but we have very large data points right now which mean more than a short test will.  Those data points are participation and results over a period of years.  

 

The greatest benefit of a test would be evaluating the NC cars if there is a push to put them in SM since so little data exists on those cars.

[Jim Drago]

As I said in the other thread, perhaps we should just wait for the announcement.  

[Tom Sager]

I have driven all but the 1.6, so 99, 01, 97...

 

Setups were all the same driving the 97 was tougher but not because of the setup, i believe the car being lighter makes it a bit twichier just MO..  converselty drivng the 01 was a tad easier then even the 99 it was a tad stiffer in the chassies and it carries a bit more wieght down low.

Ideal setup on an NA1.8 and an NB is not the same.  Close but not the same IMO.  

[Danny Steyn]

As I said in the other thread, perhaps we should just wait for the announcement.  

 

But if we do that Jim, then we cant say ......."I told you so!"

[pat slattery]

The most popular statement with 99 drivers is.  "yeah his 1.6 is not even prepped like my 99"  and " The reason your not as fast as the 99 are you need to up your prep".  Many think they are just superior drivers rather than looking at the the real reason they are further up the pointy end.  I am not saying this to dis the guys that run up front at the runoffs, they will be up there  always regardless.  

[Danny Steyn]

While I wait for my opportunity to offer you all my most valuable $0.02 opinion, I will offer the opinion of that a very seasoned engine builder shared with us this past weekend  ......   "If they do go the way that it appears they are going, it would seem to me that they are punishing all drivers for the greed of a few engine builders"..........

 

(PS this was not my man Mike!)

[CWright]

While I wait for my opportunity to offer you all my most valuable $0.02 opinion, I will offer the opinion of that a very seasoned engine builder shared with us this past weekend  ......   "If they do go the way that it appears they are going, it would seem to me that they are punishing all drivers for the greed of a few engine builders"..........

 

(PS this was not my man Mike!)

 

Which I suppose means that the rule is not gonna change (or more precise 'don't blend the sharp edge' verbiage added) so everybody with with a blended head is gonna have to get a new one from their favorite engine builder?  

 

CW

[Tom Sager]

No matter what is done on the plunge cut thing, a number of people won't be happy.  You've got engine builders, engine buyers with smooth cuts and engine buyers with sharp cuts.  Regardless of where the line is drawn, some or most of these people won't be happy.  

[Danny Steyn]

No matter what is done on the plunge cut thing, a number of people won't be happy.  You've got engine builders, engine buyers with smooth cuts and engine buyers with sharp cuts.  Regardless of where the line is drawn, some or most of these people won't be happy.  

 

Yes I agree Tom - not all will be happy. There will be some who will be ecstatic. But no matter which way we go, if EVERYONE is forced to get new heads, then we piss off ALL the drivers, and there are many that either 

• cannot afford to do it
• just refuse to do it
• and those at the front who will have to do it to comply, as they will be going through tech, as in the past

 

And then what you have is a massive disparity between those that still have the old pro heads, who were previously running slightly off the pace, now moving forward to compete with those at the front that have complied and are running the "new" heads.

 

And this is where it potentially gets unpleasant. Do you say something to the driver??? What if he still doesnt clean it up, do you throw paper at a mid-packer???? Wont be long before those that were having fun say, no way this sucks, I'm outta here.........These are some of the unpleasant unintended consequences that have to be considered when instituting a massive change, one that not all can, nor will embrace.

 

But I have been wrong before!

[pat slattery]

What will be more cost effective for the racers, buy more heads, or allow the blend?  You have to also ask, where do all those heads come from, and what about supply and demand cost

[FTodaro]

I really do not understand the move to go backwards on the rules, it will make it more expensive for people to be competitive And further separate the class.
It's seams punitive to me!
Just fix enforcement is the way to handle the issue IMO

[pat slattery]

give the blend cut guys 15 lb penalty, give the non blend guys 2 years to  upgrade and then take the weight penalty away after 2 years