390 replies to this topic

[ner88]

MOst if not all front running cars at the Majors are $40K to $60k+, cars.

Most rotate out of their car every two or three years.

If someone thinks they are going to take their old (race car) NA and make a few changes to make it competitive, your wrong!

 

SM2 works, simply SM rules minus the NB cars.

Brought out a lot of the unused cars, gave them value and a place to be competitive again.

[Danny Steyn]

MOst if not all front running cars at the Majors are $40K to $60k+, cars.

Most rotate out of their car every two or three years.

If someone thinks they are going to take their old (race car) NA and make a few changes to make it competitive, your wrong!

 

You are spot on with this. Could not agree with you more. However if they have a top flight NA already, and then a little something might help, and there are a few places left where there are still some top flight NA's being campaigned by some decent drivers. 

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

We have a couple of fast guys at Mid-O right now in NA's and have been swapping the track record with some of the NB cars yet they are building new cars (NB) for next year.

So my question is why ?

[Jim Drago]

MOst if not all front running cars at the Majors are $40K to $60k+, cars.

Most rotate out of their car every two or three years.

If someone thinks they are going to take their old (race car) NA and make a few changes to make it competitive, your wrong!

 

There is a first time for everything I agree!

[davew]

Just so everyone knows, most of what I have thrown out here is ideas for discussion. Not neccesarily what I believe is the correct way to go. Just topics to be debated.

 

Personally, I would like to see the 1.6 chassis with a NA1.8 engine be allowed without any shenanigans with VIN numbers. And allow everyone on the same suspension.Other than that, just thinkin' out loud.

 

By the way, why is the Vehicle Identification Number reffered to as a VIN Number? Shouldn't it be just the VI number? Just wonderin'.

 

dave

[Rob Burgoon]

Just so everyone knows, most of what I have thrown out here is ideas for discussion. Not neccesarily what I believe is the correct way to go. Just topics to be debated.

 

Personally, I would like to see the 1.6 chassis with a NA1.8 engine be allowed without any shenanigans with VIN numbers. And allow everyone on the same suspension.Other than that, just thinkin' out loud.

 

By the way, why is the Vehicle Identification Number reffered to as a VIN Number? Shouldn't it be just the VI number? Just wonderin'.

 

dave

 

Agreed.  That should be explicitly allowed and not just a clever exploitation of a loophole.

[Bench Racer]

By the way, why is the Vehicle Identification Number reffered to as a VIN Number? Shouldn't it be just the VI number? Just wonderin'.

 

dave

 

       :PotStiringIcon:
 

[Tom Hampton]

 

By the way, why is the Vehicle Identification Number reffered to as a VIN Number? Shouldn't it be just the VI number? Just wonderin'.

 

dave

I have a word for that: "letigo".

[Johnny D]

Did you want to talk about jumbo shrimp ?

J~

[Tom Hampton]

do you WANT to talk about jumbo shrimp?

[Johnny D]

No... I'm not hungry.

J~

[Tom Hampton]

You are spot on with this. Could not agree with you more. However if they have a top flight NA already, and then a little something might help, and there are a few places left where there are still some top flight NA's being campaigned by some decent drivers. 

 

MOst if not all front running cars at the Majors are $40K to $60k+, cars.

Most rotate out of their car every two or three years.

If someone thinks they are going to take their old (race car) NA and make a few changes to make it competitive, your wrong!

 

Sure. But, the rules apply to all levels of prep. So, while I agree they should be SET at the 100% prep level, every prep level is working to the same rule set. The theory being that cars of equal prep level (at any prep level) should be equally competetive.

 

My car is a 90% home built car, and didn't cost anywhere near that figure.  And, it meets a surprising number of the items on dave's 100% build list---honestly, more than I would have thought.  I do have a very nice drive train, and well-above-average(for a 1.6) chassis dyno HP/Tq curves.   A Majors winning driver has said, "I could win a majors in that car." 

 

As I continue to develop as a driver I will continue to develop the car as well.  Someday, maybe I'l be a competitive on the majors level (maybe not).  But, if I am good enough for majors competition, the car will follow right along (well, in reality...lead me there), with all the special grease, and whatever other wizbang things I'm missing today. 

[Blake Thompson]

Just so everyone knows, most of what I have thrown out here is ideas for discussion. Not neccesarily what I believe is the correct way to go. Just topics to be debated.

 

Personally, I would like to see the 1.6 chassis with a NA1.8 engine be allowed without any shenanigans with VIN numbers. And allow everyone on the same suspension.Other than that, just thinkin' out loud.

 

By the way, why is the Vehicle Identification Number reffered to as a VIN Number? Shouldn't it be just the VI number? Just wonderin'.

 

dave

 

ATM Machine.

[wreckerboy]

And why was this class formed ?

Because it was originally viewed as the logical alternative to the weapons race that SM became, and because it more closely adheres to those long forgotten words in the GCR, circa 2004 or so: "Low cost entry level racing."

Somewhere a few pages back in this thread I posted that I was contemplating moving away from SSM. I looked at the alternatives (ITA, STL, hell, I even rented a SM '99) and came to the conclusion that SSM met my racing needs - close competition, deep fields, reasonable cost levels - better than anything else out there. That, and people were having way to much fun out there. Thus, my engine is off to the builder after "only" five competitive seasons (thanks for that bullet, Ed York and Mike Collins), the car is getting some TLC, and I've signed up for another few seasons of 600 mile tows @ 7 MPG to and from Summit Point...

[wreckerboy]

WDCR SSM on a national level?

DONT YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

The reason SSM works so well at WDCR is because we have local control. A relatively small group of people led by one leader (currently Alan Olson assisted by Bret Depedro and others). We dyno and seal on one dyno, and Alan has worked very hard over the last few months to make that system work even better than it has in the past. A few years ago, right here in this very place, a heated discussion broke out between WDCR and the NER folks over the differences between SSM and SM2. As Mike Collins pointed out then, "it's our class, our rules, and our entrants and it obviously works for us."

Would I like to see SSM spread? Certainly. I'd love to run competitively at tracks other than those in the MARRS series (read: "not so far from home when towing."). Could SSM be implemented nationwide? Not as the SCCA is currently configured. You see, our class is run like a benevolent dictatorship, but we all know where the dictator lives and he knows we have pitchforks. On a National level? Eff a whole bunch of some remote SSMAC deciding how our class will be run.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

WDCR SSM on a national level?DONT YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.
The reason SSM works so well at WDCR is because we have local control. A relatively small group of people led by one leader (currently Alan Olson assisted by Bret Depedro and others). We dyno and seal on one dyno, and Alan has worked very hard over the last few months to make that system work even better than it has in the past. A few years ago, right here in this very place, a heated discussion broke out between WDCR and the NER folks over the differences between SSM and SM2. As Mike Collins pointed out then, "it's our class, our rules, and our entrants and it obviously works for us."
Would I like to see SSM spread? Certainly. I'd love to run competitively at tracks other than those in the MARRS series (read: "not so far from home when towing."). Could SSM be implemented nationwide? Not as the SCCA is currently configured. You see, our class is run like a benevolent dictatorship, but we all know where the dictator lives and he knows we have pitchforks. On a National level? Eff a whole bunch of some remote SSMAC deciding how our class will be run.

Rob I don't think these guys are trying to make it a National class, just a regional class nation wide.

Yes I do believe they formed this class to try and keep it cheap but also because there are a ton of 1.6 cars available that weren't being raced just sitting in garages. This is totally fine and I think it's great and would love to try this class. Who wouldn't want to play on a equal playing field !

I for one would like to see this class take off in the Great Lakes area but I don't know how many 1.6s show up to our regionals at this time. I think it could grow but we would have to find someone in this area that could dyno and seal the motors. If another region wanted to adopt this class it would be easy because they could easily implement the same rules you guys currently have in place now.

[Johnny D]

Not to throw a cat among the pigeons but what was the thinking about using RA1's over RR's ?
J~

[wreckerboy]

I'm guessing that the reason for the RA-1s probably was nothing more complex than "we're on them, they are cheap, they wear like iron, everybody's got some." Add a dash of "traditional fears of Purple Crack (Hoosiers) being worthless after just a few heat cycles" for flavor. The reality is that it doesn't matter if we are on Sears Roadhandler tires because in SSM it's not about ultimate speed but about close competition.

The concept seems to work in at least one other class in the NE as well. NER has something called IT7 that is popular and my understanding is that their spec tire is something one small step above WalMart.

[FTodaro]

Rob I don't think these guys are trying to make it a National class, just a regional class nation wide.

Yes I do believe they formed this class to try and keep it cheap but also because there are a ton of 1.6 cars available that weren't being raced just sitting in garages. This is totally fine and I think it's great and would love to try this class. Who wouldn't want to play on a equal playing field !

I for one would like to see this class take off in the Great Lakes area but I don't know how many 1.6s show up to our regionals at this time. I think it could grow but we would have to find someone in this area that could dyno and seal the motors. If another region wanted to adopt this class it would be easy because they could easily implement the same rules you guys currently have in place now.

Kuch, the Great Lakes Divisional committee meets again in November for rules discussion for 2016, If you get a group who would like to see it happen, i would be happy to help. We could get Rich Johnson at BackStreet to seal motors. Come to the July Race at Mid O and we can start spreading the word, have a meeting. What we need is someone to lead it.

[wreckerboy]

Yes I do believe they formed this class to try and keep it cheap but also because there are a ton of 1.6 cars available that weren't being raced just sitting in garages. This is totally fine and I think it's great and would love to try this class. Who wouldn't want to play on a equal playing field !
 

 

Not necessarily. Keeping in mind that I wasn't around In The Beginning, but I've been running my 1.6 in SSM since 2008 and the class predates my participation by at least one or two seasons. Cocktail napkin math says the class has existed since circa 2006. Was the '99 the All Conquering Evile Overdawg even then?