160 replies to this topic

[tburas56]

Four cars ran SCCA data today.

Buras 01

Alex B?? 99

Nick M 1.8 94

???? 1.6 90 car

 

What will it reveal? For parity sake!

 

Danny summed up the race...Intense....

[Danny Steyn]

My 99 also carried one of the SCCA black boxes!!!

[Jim Drago]

Congrats to all the podium finishers. 

Unofficially, Todd won today with Danny second and Selin third. 

 

The tech team was there and pulled the heads off the top three cars and one random car each day. I want to thank SCCA and the tech team that showed up and teched all the cars. While the results were not what I expected or wanted, I do feel that this is what is needed moving forward. I have no issues with the tech or the enforcement of the rules.

 

Post tech, Todd was Dq'ed for exceeding short turn radius allowance of 1.5mm. They removed four intake valves to inspect STR among other things.  Three holes were fine and one hole was non compliant. Everything else on head was compliant. Not that it matters, but the area that was in question occurred in a small linear section of that edge, about 1/8-3/16 long and was about 1.75mm instead of 1.5mm or less. 

 

I am sick about this. Not that it matters, but I will try an offer some explanation. Pressed for time post rule announcement  and getting Todd a new engine built, shipped and installed before Homestead,  We tried to get a jump on things and get his engine built. The original TB was to read 2mm on deburr, we started before we should have and finished the head. Our build specification was not to be exceed 1.5 mm to allow some room for safety, measuring differences etc. Before the engine shipped, the rule became official at 1.5mm.  I pulled the intake off the engine, inspected the cuts with a dental mirror. They did not look remotely close to being non compliant, so we installed the intake back on the engine and shipped it. If I thought for a second there was any potential issue, we would have pulled it apart and rechecked. We knew Todd would win races and be inspected, we absolutely were not trying to push the rule here.  

 

I am embarrassed and ashamed of this, more importantly I am very upset that I caused Todd's DQ, problems and embarraseement of being found non compliant. Being responsible for customers/friends of mine is not something I take lightly and this really bothers me. I take full responibilty for the DQ here. He will have a head in Florida on Tuesday and be right back to his winning ways. Hopefully, they will pull this new head off next week and we can put an end any speculation. There is no way this 1/8 in section of STR did anything but get him disqulaified.  I can't apologize enough here.

 

Another competitor had isues with their head and Dq'ed as well.  I will let that person comment on their situation as I dont know it, nor would it be appropriate. 

 

Again, my apologies to Todd and BSI. It is not my intention to EVER put anyone in a position where their car or engine is non compliant. 

 

Jim

[Ron Alan]

Even with valves out...the ability to measure .0098 in this area is beyond me. Who could possibly make that call?? I hope SCCA will give a detailed explanation of all DQ's

[Danny Steyn]

I find myself in the awkward position of having to apologize to the Spec Miata community for my DQ today. As you know I have been a voice asking for increased compliance testing at the races to help clean up our class, and today I was thrilled to see 6 cars being impounded after Race 2.

 

Todd Buras, myself, Selin Rollan, Elivan Goulart, Nick Malatesta (fastest 1.8NA) Wesley Saunders were all called into impound and they started with the Whistler, and then we removed heads and they were inspected in another location. Saunders refused and I believe he was written up.

 

About 2 hours later they informed  Selin and Malatesta (Rossini) and Goulart (SAC) that they had passed. Bauer came to me and told me that I had failed. I was in total disbelief.

 

I went to check on my own head with the SCCA tech, and while the head was within all measurements (Whistler, STR, plunges etc,) there was one exhaust valve where the go/no-go tool dropped into the relief cut, in one position. The clearance is less than a couple of thou, and it’s pretty clear that this is not intentional and in no way a performance gain, but by the regulations it fails the test, so I was DQ’d.

 

Mike Rossini is really upset that this caused my DQ, and I know that he in no way tried to extract any gain, just didn’t check it closely enough.

 

Really sucks. Sorry guys. Never saw this coming.

[Ron Alan]

Jim can correct me if i'm wrong...but when this issue came up a few years ago, it seemed slop in the valve guide could cause this?

I assume after all the debate then a better tool has been made. Does tech have a few different go/no go tools that have different size guides?

[Danny Steyn]

Images from Tech at Homestead Majors

 

 

 

[Danny Steyn]

Jim can correct me if i'm wrong...but when this issue came up a few years ago, it seemed slop in the valve guide could cause this?

I assume after all the debate then a better tool has been made. Does tech have a few different go/no go tools that have different size guides?

 

Ron - the new tool eliminates slop in the valve stem. 

[High Chair]

I find myself in the awkward position of having to apologize to the Spec Miata community for my DQ today. As you know I have been a voice asking for increased compliance testing at the races to help clean up our class, and today I was thrilled to see 6 cars being impounded after Race 2.

 

Todd Buras, myself, Selin Rollan, Elivan Goulart, Nick Malatesta (fastest 1.8NA) Wesley Saunders were all called into impound and they started with the Whistler, and then we removed heads and they were inspected in another location. Saunders refused and I believe he was written up.

 

About 2 hours later they informed  Selin and Malatesta (Rossini) and Goulart (SAC) that they had passed. Bauer came to me and told me that I had failed. I was in total disbelief.

 

I went to check on my own head with the SCCA tech, and while the head was within all measurements (Whistler, STR, plunges etc,) there was one exhaust valve where the go/no-go tool dropped into the relief cut, in one position. The clearance is less than a couple of thou, and it’s pretty clear that this is not intentional and in no way a performance gain, but by the regulations it fails the test, so I was DQ’d.

 

Mike Rossini is really upset that this caused my DQ, and I know that he in no way tried to extract any gain, just didn’t check it closely enough.

 

Really sucks. Sorry guys. Never saw this coming.

I wouldn't sweat it too much Danny. Yes, it sucks but anybody that knows Rossini knows this was just a small oversight. We all wanted tech and these types of things will happen from time to time; especially early in the season. See you at Sebring! 

[Ron Alan]

Maybe to late now...but a picture is worth a thousand words Danny. Any chance you snapped one with the tool and where it dropped in?

[Alex]

Hi guys I'm a new member on board and I would like for the first time after a year 1/2 of watching and learning how you guys post and talk on the forum say something.

In my personal opinion what happens at homestead majors is a red flag to all of us. I think  a driver can be DQ  when tech find issues that can give the driver advantage over others competitors. We as a group should work together and represent our own class and help each other on this . If what they found on Danny's head was not an advantage over competitors and tech knows that is a machine or human mistake there is no reason to take away that from the driver. In my personal opinion or as far as I know this our hobby not FORMULA 1 and we have to realize or they have to realize that. Lets help the class. And again if Danny's head issue didn't give any advantage, why take that away from him. WHO,S NEXT ? MAYBE YOU .

 

 

[Parity]

Alex,

 

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more with your post. Leaving it up to tech as to whether "issues can give the driver advantage" is not a rule and impossible to enforce. The current testing of the excessive de-bur of the plunge cuts is taking months to sort out and I'm sure even when the results are published will lead to conjecture about the accuracy. It's human nature. What happened at Homestead is exactly what this class needs and what most have been calling for, Although I sincerely doubt it was intentional, the violations were found and the findings can be replicated. It's a learning curve. The offending parties and everyone else for that matter will take the information back to their respective garages and make sure they're checking using the exact technique used in tech.

 

If we learn anything here, it's that perhaps motor builders have not been as thorough with inspecting each operation in their process. I'm sure they will be, going forward. The front runners will certainly get this right as they know they're headed for tech. It's likely a bunch of motors built this way are in mid pack cars and may be dq's until the current heads are purged.

 

The process is working. Unfortunately Todd and Danny were the guinea pigs.

[High Chair]

Alex,

 

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more with your post. Leaving it up to tech as to whether "issues can give the driver advantage" is not a rule and impossible to enforce. The current testing of the excessive de-bur of the plunge cuts is taking months to sort out and I'm sure even when the results are published will lead to conjecture about the accuracy. It's human nature. What happened at Homestead is exactly what this class needs and what most have been calling for, Although I sincerely doubt it was intentional, the violations were found and the findings can be replicated. It's a learning curve. The offending parties and everyone else for that matter will take the information back to their respective garages and make sure they're checking using the exact technique used in tech.

 

If we learn anything here, it's that perhaps motor builders have not been as thorough with inspecting each operation in their process. I'm sure they will be, going forward. The front runners will certainly get this right as they know they're headed for tech. It's likely a bunch of motors built this way are in mid pack cars and may be dq's until the current heads are purged.

 

The process is working. Unfortunately Todd and Danny were the guinea pigs.

Paul,

I believe you are spot on. Neither Danny or Drago are disputing the findings in tech and therefor seem to understand and for the most part agree with the DQ. I know they don't like it; no more than any of us would but their position on the matter is a stand up one in my opinion. Regardless, if it provided an advantage or not makes no difference; the rule is written and the engines exceeded the rules and the end result appears to be correct. Sure the type of violation and to what degree will be discussed here and behind closes doors to determine if we think it was an outright cheat or a simple oversight. I think most of us can understand the difference and know when something was unintentional or not. Knowing the engine builder, shop, driver, and what was found I am very confident that this was just a very small mistake. However, it still had to result in a DQ. There will be lots of us at Sebring and I fully believe my engine will be torn down. I have never used a few of these tools on my engine so there is always a possibility that mine will fail. If it does I will do as Danny and Drago did, take my lumps and move on as we all should. In the long run it is best for the class; even if it is a bit painful at first  

[wheel]

The Club will never put it in the hands of the tech crews to DQ or not DQ on whether there is an advantage gained (or not) by a non-compliant part.  Never.  Building a race car, with tight specifications, is like driving a race car.  If you drive at 101%, sometimes it bights you.  If you build to 101%, sometimes it bites you.  Driving and building to 99.9% is the way to go,

except for someone who is perfect and then you can push it up to 100%, but you better be perfect.

wheel

[Jim Drago]

Paul,
I believe you are spot on. Neither Danny or Drago are disputing the findings in tech and therefor seem to understand and for the most part agree with the DQ. I know they don't like it; no more than any of us would but their position on the matter is a stand up one in my opinion. Regardless, if it provided an advantage or not makes no difference; the rule is written and the engines exceeded the rules and the end result appears to be correct. Sure the type of violation and to what degree will be discussed here and behind closes doors to determine if we think it was an outright cheat or a simple oversight. I think most of us can understand the difference and know when something was unintentional or not. Knowing the engine builder, shop, driver, and what was found I am very confident that this was just a very small mistake. However, it still had to result in a DQ. There will be lots of us at Sebring and I fully believe my engine will be torn down. I have never used a few of these tools on my engine so there is always a possibility that mine will fail. If it does I will do as Danny and Drago did, take my lumps and move on as we all should. In the long run it is best for the class; even if it is a bit painful at first

I have to agree with Jamie. I never wanted to have to explain this stuff once, let alone twice now. We all want NASCAR type of parity, rules and tech, right up until it happens to you, a friend of yours or your engine builder. Then we start with it wasn't a performance advantage etc. Neither one of these infractions were a performance advantage, but both were non compliant. Tech was correct in moving both cars to the back or DQ, whatever they did. It may/may not change approaches. We are moving our deburr to 1 mm max from today forward. It is a tricky deal as we are all trying to get all that we can, but worthless if you don't pass tech.

As to the relief cut, after 2012 runoffs where we sat for 36 hours with this mess, we moved our max to .005 under the rule. The new tools are VERY accurate and intentionally made .007 or so larger on the radius. I don't think any of the engine builders would argue if you fail with this tool, you are over. Does it mean anything on performance? Absolutely not. Honestly, we are all stupid to even do the relief cut on the exhaust side is all it can do is get you in trouble.

[suck fumes]

I'm all for tech but you guys are going through a lot of trouble and suffering over a plastic trophy.

[CarbonRacer]

I feel really bad for Mike Rossini and Danny Steyn over this weekend. Mike Rossini had 3 engines taken apart and out of 48 valves only 1 valve was slightly off. The parties involved can give more details.

 

I'm very glad to see the higher level of tech inspection even though I was the highest finishing NA 1.8 in 16th position and still got my engine torn apart and passed. The one thing I believe should have happened since Sebring is in a few days and almost all of the same people will be there is seal the engines and then take them apart at Sebring. I am a one man team and do all the work myself and have to make all my repairs, maintenance, adjustments and put my engine back together in a very short amount of time.

[Glenn]

         ...all these are pretty good on a Monday morning.......

[Danny Steyn]

Guys. I am firmly on the side of Paul, Jamie and Drago. We choose to race this amazing class that is so close that we DO need to have PASS/FAIL tools and specs.

 

I feel absolutely gutted about this weekend. But I will take my lumps and bounce back.

 

The person I feel most sorry for is Mike Rossini. If I feel gutted, you need to see Mike. He is in such a bad way about this weekend that he wants to quit Spec Miata and especially SCCA as he feels the punishment does not fit the crime, more along the lines of Alex's post above. He is not worried about what this means to him, whats gutting him is what he feels it did to me. I have told him to put it behind him and lets go kick some ass at Sebring, but he says he is done. I am trying to talk him out of it as was every person at the track, but you know how hot headed these Italians can be!!!

 

So if any of you are up to it, call or email Mike and tell him you want him to stay in this class and in SCCA. No one has ever doubted Mike's integrity and as many know he will give you the shirt off his back to keep you racing. 

[Danny Steyn]

Just another IMPORTANT post. 

 

When I drove down to the grid for Race 1, Tom noticed that my exhaust was hanging low. He rushed and grabbed a jack, tools and coat hanger wire, and charged to the grid. He was frantically working under the car when the 5-minute warning was given. Then Nick Leverone from Flat-Out, in his drivers suit humped under my car to help Tom and get me ready to race, and only when it was resolved did he get in his own car to race.

 

A HUGE shoutout to Nick. He epitomizes the character that makes this class of Spec Miata so awesome. As he said to me when I thanked him after the race, none of us want to see a contender on the side lines when he could be racing and mixing it up with us. Thanks Nick, you are another one of the really good guys out there.