411 replies to this topic

[pat slattery]

Pat, 

 

You are not reading closely.  I responded to Danny post in which he clearly shares his thoughts about the need to create/move the 1.6 to overdog status.  I only said "No car should deliberately be made overdog", in order to disagree with his thoughts.

 

But you selectively took my comment and twisted it to try to make a point that I was against anything of benefit for the 1.6.  

 

You are wrong.

My apologies James,

 

Pat

[Ron Alan]

Uncorking the 1.8 cars will start a whole new arms race...its an evil world this amateur racing

[MPR22]

The 1.6 can be sped up a lot and than adjust the plate and weight of the rest of the cars.  We, (1.6) can't make the car faster with out rules relief.  the other cars can with plate and weight adjustments

I don't disagree with this, however only real word testing will prove the results.  Formulas and guesses aren't going to get it done.  I am sure there are several qualified drivers out there that  would be happy to be the test mules for the new and improved 1.6's.  

 

That being said, I seriously doubt the car counts will go up as soon as the 1.6 achieves perceived parity.  I also don't think all those "fast" 1.6 drivers will come back out to play.   It takes lots of money to run at the front no matter who you are or what car you are driving.  It seems to me, the main reason these top 1.6 guys haven't switched to the 99+ is monetary, not because of some ideology of staying true to roots of the class.  

 

Should we make the 1.6 so cheap to build and be the overdog that all new cars being built become 1.6's.  Mazda certainly doesn't want that.  

 

I would like the racing to be less expensive, however I can't control what my competition is willing to spend to beat me.  So if i want to be in the top 5 or top 10 at any given national/major event, I have to bring the best equipment and lots of tires.  That won't change based on what is being discussed here.  

[pat slattery]

That is why a cold air intake, weight reduction , header, or increased compression would help, Small steps

[Tom Sager]

Uncorking the 1.8 cars will start a whole new arms race...its an evil world this amateur racing

Yes, restrictor plates are good.  Negates some of the benefit that extensive selecting, flowing and massaging of engine parts.  That keeps the racing and prep a little closer.  

 

As for the 1.6, more power should also equal more weight.  That would make a 1.6 more "the same" as the other cars.  If it were up to me, I'd approve a NA1.8 engine swap and/or other bolt on mod that would give the 1.6 about 8 more HP (could be cams) and then put a plate on it so that the power under the curve looks more like the '94-97 and bring it up to 2350 pounds.  Also look for a replacement for the tough to tune AFM.  

 

Shorter term, take 20 pounds off the car.  

[LarryKing]

 

get rid of drama and even more people will flock to SM.

 

Much like the assumption that there are hundreds of parked 1.6s just waiting for a rule change to return, the statement above assumes there are hundreds more who would join SM tomorrow if only it wasn't for the drama.

 

Kimi, what do you think?

 

[Danny Steyn]

Jim Drago

 

your selective quoting above is not right (#60). Please delete it. Anyone reading your misquoted text will get the wrong impression. 

[Jim Drago]

Jim Drago

 

your selective quoting above is not right (#60). Please delete it. Anyone reading your misquoted text will get the wrong impression. 

fixed

[Mike Collins]

Mike, it has been that thinking from the SMAC that has the 1.6 in such a bad position.  I guess the 99 being "only" 16 years old  makes it a late model car.  HAHA. 

 

Pat,

 

The WDCR-SCCA MARRS Season SM 2014 Champion drove a VERY highly prepared 1.6....  Here's the funny thing...you comment everyday about the 1.6 needing help...It doesn't  It needs a bigger budget and more prep than a '99+...  So the problem comes from the fact that can't find a "Slattery" SCCA result in a 1.6 from 2014 (but the internet is not perfect)...are you sitting on the sidelines until the 1.6 gets something?  And if so, exactly what is it going to take?

[Danny Steyn]

Thanks Jim - all good

[Ron Alan]

Kimi quote...priceless!

[Ron Alan]

That is why a cold air intake, weight reduction , header, or increased compression would help, Small steps

Dont forget files... 

[john mueller]

The truth is regardless what SMAC and/or SM Working Group does everyone will not be happy...

 

• NA6 will want more or dislike the fact they were given some then got restricted by a plate
• NA8 will still be pissed at no help, which IMO fails to need any
• you get the drift...

This is hard stuff to do.  To get the 1.6 to be competitive at the top level within SM is gonna be hard.  Just because we go through all this work does it mean a considerable amount of folks are going to change, pull cars out of barns or build?  Probably not.  Some will but not enough to significantly change the class.

 

Might the racing get better??  Hopefully. 

 

Drivability is a huge factor here and it's damn near impossible to quantify down to a HP & a TQ number because it's different from driver to driver.

For instance, I wrecked my 1.6 and find a killer deal on a 99 donor so I built one.  Not knowing, but the way the car likes to be driven suits my driving style I was instantly faster by 2+ seconds.  How can that sort of increase in RESULTS across the population of drivers and qualities of car builds and prep be quantified into a weight addition or subtraction and a smaller or larger restrictor plate?

 

Hard stuff to do to get it perfect folks...  What we have now is damn good.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

No way john a 1.6 cannot win at road america so we aren't even close...

[pat slattery]

Pat,

 

The WDCR-SCCA MARRS Season SM 2014 Champion drove a VERY highly prepared 1.6....  Here's the funny thing...you comment everyday about the 1.6 needing help...It doesn't  It needs a bigger budget and more prep than a '99+...  So the problem comes from the fact that can't find a "Slattery" SCCA result in a 1.6 from 2014 (but the internet is not perfect)...are you sitting on the sidelines until the 1.6 gets something?  And if so, exactly what is it going to take?

You didn't look hard enough, we raced a double at Mid Ohio.  IT Spectacular

 

It wouldn't take a lot just a bone or two.  Your SMAC killed us, No more development left on the 1.6, and 99 already the overdog and now the VVT.  You got the 99 drivers starting to sound like the 1.6 guys complaining  about the VVT cars. 

[MPR22]

and now the VVT.  You got the 99 drivers starting to sound like the 1.6 guys complaining  about the VVT cars.
[/quote]

Actually it's just one driver, Kyle, and he is just trying to get an advantage over Frank.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Sshhh...

[FTodaro]

and now the VVT.  You got the 99 drivers starting to sound like the 1.6 guys complaining  about the VVT cars.
[/quote]

Actually it's just one driver, Kyle, and he is just trying to get an advantage over Frank.

Well said.

[FTodaro]

First of all, I am glad I am not on the SMAC and had the job of trying to come up with a program that makes 1.6, 1.8. 99 and VVT cars equal ( to everyone's satisfaction). Not sure its possible.

 

IMO the last three years the cars were close, and changes should be small. No matter what these guys do there will be unhappy people.

 

So I just want to say thank you guys for volunteering and  taking the time to make things better, but don't F it up.

[38bfast]

The letters are not pouring into SCCA. To be exact 1 I have seen so far.

Member input fore or against. Let's us know.