270 replies to this topic

[Todd Lamb]

Ok I think I got them all answered for now. At Summit Point for coaching this weekend so I'll try to answer more from the hotel each night.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

What do you do when your running toyos and the Porsche camans are running contis on the same track for the same weekend and the track feels much different with your normal setup and the paddock is abuzzzz that the tire compounds left on the track are screwing it all up?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

What do you do about a guy blocking you?

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

What do you do about a guy blocking you?

I feel you get two laps of blocking and after that game on IMHO !

Kyle,do what I do just ask AJ ! Lol

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Back in the day I raced superbikes and when you race the bikes your actually not looking at the corner your going through,your looking at the next corner. This helps to slow down the affects of how fast your going.

Now I'm wondering how far ahead are you looking when you drive ?

[Todd Lamb]

Switch to Conti's

What do you do when your running toyos and the Porsche camans are running contis on the same track for the same weekend and the track feels much different with your normal setup and the paddock is abuzzzz that the tire compounds left on the track are screwing it all up?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Switch to Conti's

Set of conti's ordered... Check.

[Danny Steyn]

Todd,

 

Kudos on a great thread.  Thanks.

 

To many out here, especially supported SM customers, I play the drivers coach role out in our little pond.  I get frustrated at times as I haven't been able to get a coach such as yourself that will talk theory enough to help me be a better driver as well as being able to give me a data lap to aspire to.  I often end up piecemealing someones better section to glean improvements in my own driving, which isn't really clicking with me much.

 

One of my friends/ fast customers and I have been working hard on the Krumm line philosophy.  I agree with you that without acceleration capability off a corner, the effect is lost or diminished, however we have some 2nd gear hairpins that it, at times, helps with.  I am afraid that we actually have just used the Krumm line to become aware of our trailbraking shortcomings, and that is where the gains have actually came from.  (Hence all cars this year got brake PSI sensors).

 

So, with that background info, I posted Danny's speed trace from NOLA (from one of those parity threads) because it has examples of data traces I am struggling to explain to myself and others.  Focusing on the trace shapes at the end of brake zones, check out the brake zone after the 2nd fastest spot on the course.  (About 9000 feet into lap).  I see examples like this on our data all the time.  The blue trace (without benefit of a cursor to move) seems to be some neutral apex corner where Danny brakes down to some minimum speed, works around the corner and pulls off.  The red line, the brakes are released slower, the trough at the bottom is not symmetrical, and there is an instantaneous (nearly) transition to the speed trace picking up sharply.  Furthermore, and most puzzling to me, is that the minimum speed point in the red trace is WAY around the corner, past the apex, and nearly at the track out point (as defined by the blue trace behavior).  AND, if the red trace really is an example of driving that deep into the corner and slowing all the way to exit, it still has stellar acceleration from that point into the next feature, even over the blue trace that accelerated earlier (presumably with turning mostly done).  I realize in this case there are two cars here, but I have lots of examples where this is the case within the same car from overlaying several laps and finding an outlier example identical to this.  I suspect Danny's cars are very close to each other anyway in this area.  Couple this with a time gap trace, and I find these examples often are the best section times. 

 

The conclusion seems to be drive in too deep and gather it up at the exit...  which I basically don't think is correct.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,

Kyle

 

Kyle - here is the video to go with those Velocity Distance traces. Unfortunately not the actual sessions that laid down those 1:58.0 laps, but this should still help with your understanding.

 

[MPR22]

Todd,

 

How do you stay focused in the middle of the race as the leaders are trying to break away from the pack and not attack each other as much as say early or late in the race.  

[Todd Lamb]

Pass em!

Seriously - check the frustration, set them up and get a run, and make the pass. Once you have position on them during the passing move, blocking isn't an option for them lest they take themselves out in the process.

What do you do about a guy blocking you?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

OK Todd serious question finally.

When you lay data up against the best in class... I most often find that best in class reaches max g load initially upon turn in and often a little bit slower driver loads the gs to the max more gradual... How can you get yourself trained to consistently turn in hard enough to hit max corning g's before unwinding the wheel?

[Todd Lamb]

Eyes UP! Kinda goes back to the sight picture vs reference points.

No point in looking directly in front of the car at 60mph. The things that are there have effectively already happened. Focus ahead on what's coming up that you can do something about.

Also, THINK ahead as much as look ahead. The more you can anticipate what's about to happen the quicker/better you can react.

Back in the day I raced superbikes and when you race the bikes your actually not looking at the corner your going through,your looking at the next corner. This helps to slow down the affects of how fast your going.

Now I'm wondering how far ahead are you looking when you drive ?

[Todd Lamb]

Focus on hitting your marks, size up your competiton, and plan a late race strategy. Figure out what the car is doing - maybe setup changes for the next day?

Todd,

How do you stay focused in the middle of the race as the leaders are trying to break away from the pack and not attack each other as much as say early or late in the race.

[Todd Lamb]

That all goes back to the speed at which the steering wheel is turned to get to max steering for a particular corner. A steering angle sensor or video can give you some idea of what is happening.

OK Todd serious question finally.

When you lay data up against the best in class... I most often find that best in class reaches max g load initially upon turn in and often a little bit slower driver loads the gs to the max more gradual... How can you get yourself trained to consistently turn in hard enough to hit max corning g's before unwinding the wheel?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

So how do you train yourself to turn the hands quicker on entry without spinning the car?

[Todd Lamb]

Kyle - see me after class.

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Haha Kyle your in trouble !!!!

[SaulSpeedwell]

The conclusion seems to be drive in too deep and gather it up at the exit...  which I basically don't think is correct.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,

Kyle

 

I don't want to butt in on Todd's channel, but it took us a while to figure this out re: the Nelson Ledges Carousel.  We would overlay 3-4 guys' data, including sessions of trying all sorts of lines, not even using the same gears, and the exit speeds were almost always the same.  The Nelson Carousel isn't like Road America - you cannot simply get it right and remain at WOT all the way through.  About 2/3 of the way around the corner, you have to "start over" because the last "required" apex is about 95% of the way around.  Unlike RA, the Nelson Carousel entry is probably 20 mph faster than the exit. 

 

I agree with Todd's analysis and "turn-to-brake, plus trailbrake" explanation, and I can tell you that some cars and drivers exhibit a similar phenomenon in the Mid O Keyhole, Carousel, and to a lesser extent in some of the other turns. 

 

As I reflect on it more now, it seems the corners tend to be ones that are inherently tight when "driven tidy", and/or are decreasing radius turns, where the exit speed has comparatively less to do with everything you did before the apex.

 

Just my $0.02

[Todd Lamb]

Halfway home from Summit Point. Fun weekend of coaching. It was an SCCA PDX (track day) weekend and we broke in a brand new driver, brand new car, and tested a 99/01 back to back.

Hope everyone enjoyed the thread and slight deviation from the usual forum banter. If you learned something, come and say hi next time you see me at an event. If you didn't, come and see me anyway and teach me something!

[Tom Hampton]

Ok. Beginners turn. I just completed my 3rd, 4th and 5th races ever. I qualified decent, mid pack (15th out of 27). But, I lost several positions on every start.

I raced at about my level, maintaining my qualifying pace throughout the race. I regained most or all, and once more positions than I lost. I even managed to finish 14th once and pickup $50 toyo bucks.

How do I work on starting better? Or what advice do you have for managing the start to minimize losses, hold position, or take advantage of others mistakes?

Are there ways to work on starts between race events?