825 replies to this topic

[Ron Alan]

Number mean nothing, results mean everything.  Not saying that speed won't put a top prep car out there but dyno numbers are just that numbers. They don't say anything about the rest of the cars prep.  I have seen plenty of 130 hp cars that would not go and some 124's that look like rocket ships.  

The subtle point of Robs comment is so often over looked!

[MPR22]

The subtle point of Robs comment is so often over looked!

In the southeast Majors front running absolutely = top prep.

 

Not so sure about the west coast, you have one guy that wins everything and his stuff is top prep. (and yes he is a wheel) 

[dstevens]

Front running != top prep.  Maybe we should wait to see what numbers it puts out before we call it "mid pack budget".

 Yes because the front of the field is littered with first time SM builders using recycled parts for a home shop build...

 

I think Jason's thread should be renamed: Here is my build log of attempting to build a nationally competitive car.

Skip over all the $$ bs talk, it's not the focus of the build, it's going to cost whatever it's going to cost.

There is plenty of engineering going on in the background of this project that can be very useful to other budget racers!! 

The cost absolutely the focus of the build.  It's only now that he's finding out the original cost goal for a top runner was overly optimistic.  His premise all along has been that it's possible to build a top flight car for about half of what it really costs.  People who have been around for a while know that's not the case but that shouldn't stop someone from trying.  No matter how unrealistic the goals.  

 

Jason put the keyboard down and pick up a wrench.  Time is a wastin'.   The only way you can prove your point is to go out and do it.

[Rob Burgoon]

1st is a number

[speedengineer]

aww, this site has no eating popcorn emoticon.  this will have to do. 

 

[Jim Drago]

When I finish I will post a new thread titled " A not so 15k car that better run at the front or I am burning it" I am tired of looking at it in the shop

Jim

[Ron Alan]

'

 

In the southeast Majors front running absolutely = top prep.

 

Not so sure about the west coast, you have one guy that wins everything and his stuff is top prep. (and yes he is a wheel) 

 

"Podium",  "Top Prep", "$$$", "Great driver"   

 

The question is are these mutually exclusive? Since you brought up Mr. Drennan, in his incredible run the last couple years he has finished 2nd or 3rd 3 times. The car that sat on the top spot in each of those had 2 of the 4 things i mentioned...podium before and had great drivers. It is not top prepped(based on many's definition) or cost a lot. BUT...it runs pretty good!  Sorry, it is the West coast and i guess not a great example of my point. 

 

Your wife is still waiting for that trip to Wine Country Michael!

[chris haldeman]

When I finish I will post a new thread titled " A not so 15k car that better run at the front or I am burning it" I am tired of looking at it in the shop
Jim

I've built a few of those. One car in particular I went as far as throwing the gas on it. Just didn't have the balls too light it. :-)

[speedengineer]

I still think a $15k SM has the potential to be fast.  Granted, you could build a $50k SM and it be slow if you don't do it right.  You need to focus on what actually matters.  For example, having a very strong motor has a huge influence on lap time; having special 'blue printed' wheel bearings does not have a huge influence.  Just one example of many.  If you rub on the whole drivetrain is there some lap time there, yeah probably, but is it worth all the money you spend?  Maybe I'm wrong and it's worth multiple hp, doubt it though.  Same approach goes for other parts of the car too - dampers, setup/alignment.  etc.  This is an experiment to find out.

 

 

Here is plot with completely arbitrary numbers to show what I think is possible

[speedengineer]

Darn it!  I said I wasn't going to post anything else with the word cost in it.  Oops.  Alright, out to the garage I go then.

[Lmcgrew79]

One thing i havent seen anyone talk about is the driver? It seems sm is very competitive but are all the top running cars wheeled by top drivers or is the top running car making them a top finisher? Are the top national drivers really that comparable or is the the car? Will a pro driver in a mid pack car still be mid pack? It seems in all this talk there is an assumption that the nut behind the wheel are all equivalent.

[Jim Drago]

One thing i havent seen anyone talk about is the driver? It seems sm is very competitive but are all the top running cars wheeled by top drivers or is the top running car making them a top finisher? Are the top national drivers really that comparable or is the the car? Will a pro driver in a mid pack car still be mid pack? It seems in all this talk there is an assumption that the nut behind the wheel are all equivalent.

Anyone running at the front in a competitive majors field is a hell of a driver in a very good car.

 

A pro driver in a mid pack car will finish mid pack to mid front pack, but never win IMO.

[Ron Alan]

Anyone running at the front in a competitive majors field is a hell of a driver in a very good car.

 

A pro driver in a mid pack car will finish mid pack to mid front pack, but never win IMO.

Come on Jim...a Pro driver doesnt stand a chance at any Majors event even in a good car...unless he is a former top Miata driver!! 

[speedengineer]

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.  Well, not really.  Finally finished that welding cart I have been working on, so soon I will be able to get back to the fun stuff, like cage fabrication.

 

Here's the new cart!  Just kidding.  This is the outgoing pos cart.

 

New cart.  Found a good use for an old filing cabinet. 

 

 

Bonus points to anyone who can guess what I'll be using this bottle for during the engine build process:

[Lmcgrew79]

To prime the oil pump, or to have whiskey sippy cup?

[speedengineer]

To prime the oil pump, or to have whiskey sippy cup?

 

Nope! Neither.  But, I rather like that second idea. 

[dstevens]

 

Bonus points to anyone who can guess what I'll be using this bottle for during the engine build process:

 

 So if you have to pee you don't have to leave the shop?...

 

 

I suppose you could use it for assembly lube.  If you didn't pee in it of course.

[Steve Scheifler]

Refilling a properly graduated burette, and maybe sucking some of the fluid back out of the chamber through the fill hole before removing the glass.

[speedengineer]

Refilling a properly graduated burette, and maybe sucking some of the fluid back out of the chamber through the fill hole before removing the glass.

 

Getting warmer...

[Dave D.]

Flushing metal shards from your eyes while notching tubing!!!