825 replies to this topic

[speedengineer]

VVT.4.JPG

Frank, which did you paint first, the chassis or the cage? Also worried mine will have a couple tight spots between the cage and sheet metal that will need to be sprayed because I can't fit a brush in there. Thoughts?

[speedengineer]

Built up the coilovers tonight with the fat cat kit.  Then reinstalled the rear subframe and rear control arms and rear coilovers.

 

No instructions shipped with the fat cat kit.  Thankfully, after searching google for a while online, I was able to find the fat cat instructions via the 5x racing website!

 

 

 

Note, I only have the spring perches cranked up so high so that the springs hold pressure on the rubber upper spring retainer until the glue cures...

 

[Steve Scheifler]

And here I figured people would be commenting on the Erik Hardy novel dewalt-method of engine machining. Perhaps they are just speechless due to the absurdity of machining relief cuts using a cordless drill! All joking aside, I'm impressed with how well it works. Very nice cuts and surface finish.

I'm just hoping you left a reasonable margin for error unless you had access to one of the few go/no-go gauge sets. Miss by a hair in one direction, the gauge drops and the head is junk for SM. Tough on the budget.

[speedengineer]

I'm just hoping you left a reasonable margin for error unless you had access to one of the few go/no-go gauge sets. Miss by a hair in one direction, the gauge drops and the head is junk for SM. Tough on the budget.

 

We have not cut our real cylinder heads yet.  That was a scrap head we were practicing on.

 

Erik fabricated no-go inspection gauges.  Plus we will be machining to well under the spec'd dimensions...

[Steve Scheifler]

Right, but I assume the goal is to cut the real ones. The only gauges that matter of course are the ones in tech, but if Erik can replicate them reliably he could probably sell a few sets. I admire your willingness to tackle all that yourself and I'm impressed with your progress. You are certainly more productive than I have been lately.

[FTodaro]

Frank, which did you paint first, the chassis or the cage? Also worried mine will have a couple tight spots between the cage and sheet metal that will need to be sprayed because I can't fit a brush in there. Thoughts?

Cage first, then the tub. you can reach 99.5% of the metal with a brush.

[38bfast]

What glue did you use on the fat cats?. I ask because at some time ago they recommended gorilla glue. It doesn't hold and the perch will fall and cause unpredictable handling. We rough up both surfaces with a grinder and glue them in with polyurethane windshield adhesive. I put weight on them and let the glue cure for a day.

[Ron Alan]

I used gorilla glue as suggested. A little brake cleaner on both surfaces first and then let it sit overnight before assemble(with a little pressure). So far so good as far as i can tell...but Ralphs method sounds great as well...just not something most would have in their garage?

[Jim Drago]

What glue did you use on the fat cats?. I ask because at some time ago they recommended gorilla glue. It doesn't hold and the perch will fall and cause unpredictable handling. We rough up both surfaces with a grinder and glue them in with polyurethane windshield adhesive. I put weight on them and let the glue cure for a day.

That is what we do as well and by far the best way to do it. I had same issues with gorilla glue not holding.
Funny side story: As a young man growing up in my dads body shop when urethane was just becoming mandatory in windshield replacement as the windshield was a "structural" part of the car... at 16-18 years old, I wanted clean hands as I found out quickly girls don't like dirty nasty hands.. Urethane can make a mess of your hands!! I was tired of having black in the grooves of my fingers.. so our glass rep stopped by and and I asked.. Do you have anything that will get this off your hands? His reply was classic. He said" I have something that gets it off every time" I asked what it was .. "time my man, time and time alone gets that off "

[38bfast]

The gorilla glue is more specific to a pourious surface application. I have repaired a lot of customers cars that used the gorilla glues because they have become dislodged. Have one in the shop right now that I have to fix next week.

You can get a tube of polyurethane at most auto parts stores. It's a 3m product so it's a bit pricy. $22-$24 per tube. Shelf life once open is not that long.

Just another one of those things that experience teaches you.

And yes your right Jim time works very well to get it off your hands.

[Ron Alan]

Not only is it impossible to get off but it finds its way everywhere I occasionally work with ABS pipe and glue...same problem

[38bfast]

Not sure why I have never been smart enough to put on disposable gloves when I use this stuff.

[FTodaro]

What glue did you use on the fat cats?. I ask because at some time ago they recommended gorilla glue. It doesn't hold and the perch will fall and cause unpredictable handling. We rough up both surfaces with a grinder and glue them in with polyurethane windshield adhesive. I put weight on them and let the glue cure for a day.

I have used two part epoxy that works well. I have also not glued them at all. the newer version is smaller and it just rides on top of the shock and not sure it needs to be glued.

[speedengineer]

Checked my glue strength earlier, mine came apart pretty easy pulling on them, so I will be redoing.  Thanks for the tip Ralph.

 

Also worked on cylinder heads today.  The pilot tool we had broke, so decided to upgrade equipment.

[Tom Hampton]

The gorilla glue is more specific to a pourious surface application.

This isn't really true. Poly glue adheres very well to nonporous material...muxh better than pva. However, it is very sensitive to proper procedure---in particular, it requires clamping pressure.

Without adequate clamping pressure the glue will expand like the spray foam and create a weak layer. Most people aren't aware of this point. So, g-glue joints end up weak.

In addition the glue is fairly brittle, so it doesn't handle the repeated flexing of a suspension joint.

Nnevertheless, the flexible windshield poly adhesive is a much better application because none of the above factors come into play.

[Jim Drago]

This isn't really true. Poly glue adheres very well to nonporous material...muxh better than pva. However, it is very sensitive to proper procedure---in particular, it requires clamping pressure.

Tom no idea if your right or not, really don't care. Just love when people contradict Ralph Get him started on Mig Vs Tig welding some day

[38bfast]

This isn't really true. Poly glue adheres very well to nonporous material...muxh better than pva. However, it is very sensitive to proper procedure---in particular, it requires clamping pressure.
Without adequate clamping pressure the glue will expand like the spray foam and create a weak layer. Most people aren't aware of this point. So, g-glue joints end up weak.
In addition the glue is fairly brittle, so it doesn't handle the repeated flexing of a suspension joint.
Nnevertheless, the flexible windshield poly adhesive is a much better application because none of the above factors come into play.

Correct Tom. Didn't want to get into all the specifics of G-Glue other than our application was not the best suited.

Just to note due to its expansion feature it's very will suited for a more porious application to maximize bite. And correctly stated camping is a must.

Frank I would believe that a two part epoxy might be a bit ridged / brittle bond to control the flex of the poly upper perch.

As far as not gluing them at all opinions may very but from my data we will always glue them.

[Steve Scheifler]

Good info, if a bit late. We've had only one come apart but that's too many. And to think I already had two tubes of 3M window weld (for a different project) right there on the bench when the cars were apart. Oh well, I'll get back to them and just keep an eye on things until then.

[38bfast]

Tom no idea if your right or not, really don't care. Just love when people contradict Ralph Get him started on Mig Vs Tig welding some day

Screw welding Jim just glue it.

Alcualy my old plane was a glued together rather than riveted. Or more appropriately named structal adhesive. Passangers were never happy to hear that when we were in flight.

The entire structure on the louts Elise Exige and Evora are bonded without any welding or riveting.

[38bfast]

Jason I commend your efforts. Wish more younger folks had the quest for learning / challenges.