310 replies to this topic

[David L]

cheating, or paying an engine builder to cheat or a suspension guy to cheat your car is not the best prep around although you "fast guys" sure seem think so

 

To say the racing is competitive up front just proves the point, all the cars are "prepped" the same, those unwilling to cheat or pay the price to have someone do it for them start at a disadvantage. We can just look to the 2014 runoffs to see how many of the best drivers finished!  And many will say look at last year we were so good.

 

Compression gate started in 2011, tech has not caught up yet! 

[Richard Astacio]

cheating, or paying an engine builder to cheat or a suspension guy to cheat your car is not the best prep around although you "fast guys" sure seem think so

 

To say the racing is competitive up front just proves the point, all the cars are "prepped" the same, those unwilling to cheat or pay the price to have someone do it for them start at a disadvantage. We can just look to the 2014 runoffs to see how many of the best drivers finished!  And many will say look at last year we were so good.

 

Compression gate started in 2011, tech has not caught up yet! 

 

 

The "fast guys" are fast because they put in the work to become the best they can be........

 

Look at the New England Patriots..beside Brady with deflate gate. They are always pushing the envelope...

The New York Yankees, are they cheaters??? or do they push the envelope??? Anyone who wants to be the best that they can be will push the envelope and you can do that without cheating.  

[FTodaro]

Not worth the effort...

Read dstevens post and educate yourself!

Come on Jim, we have not had any good Drama on the forum for awhile "let er Rip" 

 

"Your faster than me so either your have a better motor or your cheating"

[Jim Drago]

Come on Jim, we have not had any good Drama on the forum for awhile "let er Rip" 
 
"Your faster than me so either your have a better motor or your cheating"

Just outspending you

[Tom Hampton]

new signature.

[dstevens]

The New York Yankees, are they cheaters??? 

 

I know some  BoSox fans that would think so... 

 

 

If I get a beatin' they must be a cheatin'!

[Todd Lamb]

Some engines are always going to be better than others, even when built to identical specs. So finding one of those super special ones is rare. And then factor in the tuning and components that can make or break your dyno numbers....that's what top prep is. Nothing to do with cheating, and everything to do with years and years of experience doing things RIGHT.

If you really think that all the top guys are cheating, you've got a lot to learn.

[Jim Creighton]

If it were possible (which it is not) to build 5 identical cars, all 5 would never finish in a dead heat in a 50 mile race. The factor that can not be controlled in the driver. No driver will ever run a perfect race, but one will always be closer to perfection than the others. And it is a given fact that the cream will rise to the top. Ask any dairy farmer/ car builder!

 

 

[David L]

Super rare, that's funny.  

 

Just look at the numbers the MARRS racers have decided that it's not worth it to find that super rare motor and now SSM more than doubles SM entries.

 

What about the regions without a real SSM class where do those guys go? 

 

"If you really think that all the top guys are cheating, you've got a lot to learn"

 

What was EVERY CAR that got TECHED in Cali got DQ'd  I guess I do have a lot to learn

[wreckerboy]

new signature.

:golf clap:

[David L]

If it were possible (which it is not) to build 5 identical cars, all 5 would never finish in a dead heat in a 50 mile race. The factor that can not be controlled in the driver. No driver will ever run a perfect race, but one will always be closer to perfection than the others. And it is a given fact that the cream will rise to the top. Ask any dairy farmer/ car builder!

 I am not talking about driver skill or prep here buddy. I am talking about clearly gaining the system and cheating. you know even being found non-compliant is  cheating 

[LarryKing]

I struggle daily not to be a grammar cop, however the correct term is "gaming the system." There, I feel better.

[Bench Racer]

http://www.clipartbe.../KineyojzT.jpeg

[Jim Drago]

Some engines are always going to be better than others, even when built to identical specs. So finding one of those super special ones is rare. And then factor in the tuning and components that can make or break your dyno numbers....that's what top prep is. Nothing to do with cheating, and everything to do with years and years of experience doing things RIGHT.

If you really think that all the top guys are cheating, you've got a lot to learn.

Not to mention there are eight different casting numbers of the 99/00 head alone.. three different types of intake valves and so on and so on..
All engines are built to the same build sheet with exact same services performed which is why we have so many different drivers winning in majors with our equipment.

[Steve Scheifler]

I feel a long-winded post coming on but don't have time at the moment. Perhaps later in a separate topic, but for now it seems to me that a lot of people are reading more into other's statements than intended, on both sides. I have't seen David claim that a good driver in a 100% tech compliant car would be seconds/lap off the pace in SM, or that if you put someone who runs mid-pack in such a car into a "top prep" car they will suddenly run with the leaders.

I think that what he IS saying is that there is a long and proven history of people stretching the rules beyond the limit, and the culture of SSM is to not tolerate that. You can argue all day about grey areas vs cheating but in SSM they don't want to deal with that, either adopt their philosophy or play somewhere else. Many of us wish that could work in SM, but of course it can't for all the reasons discussed. But if you focus on the core of what I think David's message is rather than his vitriol, he is not wrong. Shall I list other recent and even current examples to support him, or can we cut him a little slack?

[LarryKing]

True or not, a very common paddock chatter, for years, is that the guys at the front get the "peaches", because engine builders want their motor to be in the winning car, thereby increasing sales of "off-the-shelf" motors to the schmoes.

 

(I think there may be some validity)

[Steve Scheifler]

I struggle daily not to be a grammar cop, however the correct term is "gaming the system." There, I feel better.

I hate to be the terminology cop, but that isn't really a grammar issue. Funny, I don't feel any better.
But honestly, it took restraint to not send David a PM.

[Erik Hardy]

I want to see Steve and David write a cooperative GCR for SM. Just for fun. And more man drama.

 

Is it race season yet?

[Jim Drago]

I feel a long-winded post coming on but don't have time at the moment. Perhaps later in a separate topic, but for now it seems to me that a lot of people are reading more into other's statements than intended, on both sides. I have't seen David claim that a good driver in a 100% tech compliant car would be seconds/lap off the pace in SM, or that if you put someone who runs mid-pack in such a car into a "top prep" car they will suddenly run with the leaders.

I think that what he IS saying is that there is a long and proven history of people stretching the rules beyond the limit, and the culture of SSM is to not tolerate that. You can argue all day about grey areas vs cheating but in SSM they don't want to deal with that, either adopt their philosophy or play somewhere else. Many of us wish that could work in SM, but of course it can't for all the reasons discussed. But if you focus on the core of what I think David's message is rather than his vitriol, he is not wrong. Shall I list other recent and even current examples to support him, or can we cut him a little slack?

Your summation most would likely agree with. However something about being an a$$hole on the forums and a troll in general seems to discredit the content of certain posts/posters.