139 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

Says the guy who talked handicap after 40 years and is about to turn 50 years, comments from yours truley who is about to turn 74. May you enjoy the race car and race community when your 70 years.  
 
Helped you pick up the pace with your smiley face.

we are all racers.. when the circumstances fit we use them.. when they don't we change them or make shit up

[Ron Alan]

Ron, you most likely may have free contingency tires from all folks outside the 25% pointy end.

 

You may have all my contingency tires free. How about those of you outside the 25% pointy end, will you freely give Ron your tires. Yup, I understand now and then someone outside the 25% pointy end receives a contingency tire. 

David...I'm one of the few people that does not rip on you and appreciates what you post...even when I dont agree...because I know where your heart is! Domm doesnt want his tires when he wins...so I figured I be the first to ask for what he is entitled to but he is obviously not going to use  

 

As the ultimate budget racer I will take what i can get...but I expect nothing from those who have the means or win everything! They have earned it!

[Johnny D]

Just a FYI..

http://www.scca.com/...tires-come-from

'Tis the season... and that means that many people will be buying race tires as presents for their 2016 race season. If you happen to be buying Hoosiers, you might never really think about where they come from. ABC 57 in South Bend, IN went behind the scenes in their Made In Michiana series to see where all that fancy rubber we use so much of comes from...

There's a video, click the link to view ^^

PLYMOUTH, Ind. - ABC 57 is taking you behind the scenes of one of the largest tire manufacturers in motor sports. Hoosier Tire sends race tires to countries all over the world.

It started with one Michiana man's dream to make a better racing tire, and 36 years later, Hoosier Tire is still rolling out some of the best tires in the industry.

"In 1979 it was a very humble beginning. Today, it's by far the largest race tire manufacturer in the world," said John DeSalle, Hoosier Tire Vice President of Engineering and Manufacturing.

It started as a search for a better tire for racing enthusiast Bob Newton and his wife, Joyce.

He lost a lot of races due to the quality and performance of the tires he was using," DeSalle said.

The Newtons began retreading street tires for racing, and sold them out of an old South Bend barn. A little over 20 years later, their small business went big time.

"When it came time to make that really critical, significant investment to build a tire plant, it was the local community of Plymouth that said locate here," DeSalle said.

Once the Newtons opened the doors of the Hoosier Tire plant in Plymouth, designing and manufacturing tires full time, their business only grew.

"Over 1400 different types of race products are produced in this race factory every year," DeSalle said.

Today, Hoosier Tire is racing's largest manufacturer.

"Last year we shipped racing tires to over 80 countries in the world," DeSalle said.

They are devoted 100-percent to motor sports.

"Every person here, every engineer, every compounder, every employee that we met today, their sole purpose is to make, and design, and build a better race tire," DeSalle said.

DeSalle is an example of that. He's been with Hoosier Tire for 27 years now. He says every step of the process reflects how the Newtons would want it done.

"We take a lot of steps to ensure that every tire we produce is built to the very best quality," DeSalle said.

It starts with rubber made from some of the best materials in the world.

From here to here that's a batch of rubber, that's about 400 pounds of rubber," DeSalle said.

Each batch is dropped into a mixer that runs 24 hours a day, five to six days a week, at a temperature of 225 degrees.

"450 pounds of rubber will come down on this mill and you can watch them manipulate it," DeSalle said.

That rubber is weaved into a fabric-like material and expertly cut.

"This is a very skilled position, it takes a builder about one year to get proficient to do what you're going to see happen here now," DeSalle said.

After that, the rubber is shaped with a metal drum.

"It still doesn't look like a tire it's just a big tube, we're getting closer," DeSalle said.

Then it is loaded into a hot curling press.

"In 20 minutes they're going to look like that," DeSalle said.

To get a nearly finished racing slick, topped off with a stamp of approval.

"Can't call it Hoosier if it's not located in Indiana," DeSalle said.

The tire is 100 percent made in Michiana.

[dstevens]

There is a fallacy to the no contengency, cheaper tire argument.  First it assumes that the direct retail price will be used for any sort of discount.  That's not going to happen.  It's going to be at cost.  It's not going to be anywhere near $10 a tire.   No way in hell the contingency program adds $40 a set.  I doubt it's $10 a set.

 

Second, based on other contingency programs in which I'm more familiar, the money doesn't come from sales budgets, it comes from marketing budgets.  Same big pot of money in the big picture only different people spending different parts of the pot.  Just because they aren't giving the tires away doesn't mean that money won't get spent on some other form of advertising.  

 

It's a false equivalence to compare the programs of Hoosier and Mazda directly in terms of contingency.  Contingency is a marketing/rewards/incentive program.   While both use that as the basis for a discount there are not so nuanced differences in the business models and motives of each respective company as to why they provide those discounts/awards.  Hoosier make race tires and race tires only.  They exist because they can sell tires to racers.  Mazda uses racing specifically to support street car sales.  Except for a very small part of the operation they don't sell race parts.  What they sell are street car parts that they still make for the street cars.  That just brings the prices down so it's somewhat competitive with after market parts.  Mazda is in racing because it looks good on TV in the ads and they may sell some MPVs to wives and moms of racers not because they want to sell us cheap parts for 20 year old cars.  Mazda and Hoosier have different reasons and business models for their involvement in racing.  Simply comparing the two without taking each model into account is a poor comparison.

 

It's a prize.  You want to win the prize?  Then win the race.

[Johnny D]

The last part of the article (pg 49) SCCA Enterprise CEO asked Hoosier what would happen if there was no contingency and they said the price would be reduced.

 

Just saying,

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

No time now for full reply to multiple posts I think are incorrect, but dstevens I think you are mistaken in most of what you believe about the Mazda racing program, why it exists, why it works. And since you state those are key to why they are different than Hoosier, I don't buy the rest of your argument. But even if you were correct, and yes I know all about different budgets/pots, the bottom line is that more than anything we get a discount direct from the racing arm as an incentive to race their cars instead of Hondas, Nissans, etc. and to help fund their existence and other racing activities. As for Jim wanting a volume discount I understand that but at the same time realize that it would be a very bad move for a company so big on grass-roots racing. In their business model we are more like members than customers, and that is a huge difference. A difference that SCCA doesn't always keep in mind when they negotiate tire contracts.

So all you naysayers, despite the different budgets etc. I guess someone figured a way to do it for SRF. Perhaps in the long run they are not going to get what they bargained for, but at a minimum you can bet that joe-average who isn't getting any contingency now won't be any worse off.

[Waterboy]

Really, we have to listen to political bull shit on this site?

Isn't most every post on this site political with two sides to the argument.

You have the one side that always argues the people who spend more, risk more, and try harder should give them something because you know it's just not fair.
Then you have the other side that says if I'm better then you why shouldn't I deserve (notice I did not say "get" because it's not free) more.

[Bench Racer]

 and to help fund their existence and other racing activities.

Steve brings up a true/valid point, MazdaMotorSports sales profit supports Mazda's racing activities in the United States.

 

As far as MazdaMotorSports parts cost the 1.6 engine is a great example of what happens when Mazda parts are running out. The 1.6 started out costing just shy of $2,000.00, the other day someone posted $3,800.00. When I started buying MazdaMotorSports 1st Gen RX7 rotors the cost was just shy of $20.00 each for fronts. As the supply dwindled the cost was just shy of $100.00 each. I'm not saying good bad or otherwise, just stating real facts. 

 

Below is a bit of Hoosier history from 1988/1989.

 

http://articles.dail...oosier-tire-war

[dstevens]

Motorsports programs exist to to market street cars and in some cases provide R&D.  That's true with HPD, Toyota, GM, Ford and others.  Racing is largely a small margin or break even endevor for most manufacturers.   Without Mazda selling street cars there would be no MSM.

[Steve Scheifler]

When is the last time you saw any mainstream Mazda marketing related to racing, amateur or otherwise? I'm not saying that their participation doesn't sell a few cars to racers and family, but that alone would hardly be worth all the effort.

[wheel]

"Isn't most every post on this site political with two sides to the argument."

 

My point is that there should be no place here for references to political candidates, or for your own political position.  Surely, that was obvious.

[Johnny D]

http://mazdaracers.c...rms-of-service/

 

J~

[FTodaro]

we are all racers.. when the circumstances fit we use them.. when they don't we change them or make shit up

Your not suggesting this is just limited to racers and racing??

[Johnny D]

 

J~

[James York]

"Isn't most every post on this site political with two sides to the argument."

 

My point is that there should be no place here for references to political candidates, or for your own political position.  Surely, that was obvious.

 

You want a "safe zone" from free speech?.....

[Johnny D]

J~

[Steve Scheifler]

You want a "safe zone" from free speech?.....

Absolutely!

[JRHille]

Step up your game and start winning races. I doubt at that point anyone would want to give up the prize of tires and Mazda money for those less talented/fortunate to save a few dollars.

Gotta pay to play. Doubtful the discount would be worth it compared to the incentive those would lose to perform.

[Rob Burgoon]

Step up your game and start winning races. I doubt at that point anyone would want to give up the prize of tires and Mazda money for those less talented/fortunate to save a few dollars.

Gotta pay to play. Doubtful the discount would be worth it compared to the incentive those would lose to perform.

 

Say, has your racing effort been entirely self funded?

[Steve Scheifler]

Step up your game and start winning races. I doubt at that point anyone would want to give up the prize of tires and Mazda money for those less talented/fortunate to save a few dollars.

Gotta pay to play. Doubtful the discount would be worth it compared to the incentive those would lose to perform.

We scored a lot of tires in the Toyo Bucks days, and even this year came out ahead compared to the likely discounts, but I'm still opposed to the program. Guess that shoots your theory down pretty fast.

If anything, the current system is blatant socialism, just flipped upside down. And if someone doesn't have enough incentive to perform well regardless of free tires, perhaps they need a different hobby. A lot of guys have zero expectation of finishing up front and are just scraping up enough cash to run a few races for the shear pleasure of it. Why the F should they subsidize, even a little bit, the tires for people running fresh rubber every weekend, paying for arrive & drive, buying new cars every couple seasons just in case the old one is a bit to flexy, and on and on and on. Not only do they again get dismissed with "step up your game" BS, they are helping to pay for the new tires that are kicking their ass. I haven't looked into it yet but maybe someone in SRF finally said HELL NO and pushed for change.

If the people who are making out like bandits were a little less obnoxious maybe it wouldn't seem so bad.