139 replies to this topic

[Mark Drennan]

Maybe we should eliminate $5 trophies too so we can drop everyone's entry fees by $.50? 

 

Personally, I race a lot and use a lot of tires for two reasons...1) it's necessary to compete at the top 2) there's a correlation between going faster and consuming more tires.  Fortunately for me, I'm able to place high enough to benefit from the contingencies and it absolutely makes a significant difference in my annual spend.  In fact, it's one of the factors I consider when contemplating what/where to run.  It's also (and maybe primarily, especially in a spec series) an incentive to perform well...for everyone. 

 

Steve - you've made you're point and expressed your opinion.  Others, like me and maybe (probably?) those who buy the majority of SM tires, have different opinions.

[dstevens]

When is the last time you saw any mainstream Mazda marketing related to racing, amateur or otherwise? I'm not saying that their participation doesn't sell a few cars to racers and family, but that alone would hardly be worth all the effort.

 

There was the broadcast of the Mazda Road to Indy Series that was on once a month or so during the season.  On a larger scale they've had the campaign with the tag line...

 

On any given weekend, there are more Mazdas on the road-race tracks of America than any other brand of vehicle. At the track, you’ll see MX-5 Miata, RX-8, MAZDA3, MAZDA6, RX-7 and other vintage Mazda models competing, because every Mazda has the Soul of a Sports Car.

 

 

There are a few variations of the ad but the gist is that the cars are racey.  That's only TV.  Look at any of the Mazda social media outlets, Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest to name a few and it's undeniable that the racing is used as a marketing platform.  But you'll still deny it...

 

 

 

"Isn't most every post on this site political with two sides to the argument."

 

My point is that there should be no place here for references to political candidates, or for your own political position.  Surely, that was obvious.

 

Your point was very obvious.

 

 

 

And don't call me Shirley...

[MPR22]

We scored a lot of tires in the Toyo Bucks days, and even this year came out ahead compared to the likely discounts, but I'm still opposed to the program. Guess that shoots your theory down pretty fast.
If anything, the current system is blatant socialism, just flipped upside down. And if someone doesn't have enough incentive to perform well regardless of free tires, perhaps they need a different hobby. A lot of guys have zero expectation of finishing up front and are just scraping up enough cash to run a few races for the shear pleasure of it. Why the F should they subsidize, even a little bit, the tires for people running fresh rubber every weekend, paying for arrive & drive, buying new cars every couple seasons just in case the old one is a bit to flexy, and on and on and on. Not only do they again get dismissed with "step up your game" BS, they are helping to pay for the new tires that are kicking their ass. I haven't looked into it yet but maybe someone in SRF finally said HELL NO and pushed for change.
If the people who are making out like bandits were a little less obnoxious maybe it wouldn't seem so bad.

o


Steve, everytime someone disagrees with you, you spend about 2 man hours trying to argue your point. The front runners buy more tires and should be rewarded for winning or at least performing well. Saving 20-40 dollars a set of tires for the field doesn't move the needle on decision making for most competitors. The opportunity to win something even something as small as one tire absolutely moves the needle for many competitors. The SCCA has chosen to push their Majors program, their greatest incentive to racers to attend is the tire contingency. So yes they are subsidizing the cost so a few can benefit but without it their program would suffer. We spend about 3-5k per Major in prep, travel and tires. If there is no cheese at the end of the chase then we won't travel. We take the risk that we will perform but without any reward why bother. We specifically went to Kansas based on contingency payouts this year. Too bad you didn't go, we could have raced.

[Waterboy]

If the people who are making out like bandits were a little less obnoxious maybe it wouldn't seem so bad.

 

And maybe if the people that are always asking for something but are never happy with anything no matter what they get were a little less obnoxious it wouldn't seem so bad.  In life and racing!

[Jim Drago]

Another reason for the contingency in spec series is when successful people in our series race in other classes with open tires, they choose Hoosier as they are familiar, Hoosier has supported us well and have given tire contingencies over the years. That is a great example of why Hoosier pays out the contingency.

Unlike Steve, I think contingency and rewarding the successful who either work harder, have more talent and/or spend more than the rest in time and /or dollars SHOULD be rewarded. Reducing the cost of the tires a few dollars a set so most who buy 1/4 to 1/10 the tires I do yearly seems far more like socialism to me? Like Steve... If I were never to win another contingency tire, my opinion would not change on this matter.. But I don't think that shoots down any theory, we just have different opinions and our opinions are swayed by the results of the policies.

[Bench Racer]

Hoosier

 

SCCA CONTINGENCY AWARD
PROGRAM GUIDELINES & AWARDS
Updated: 2-17-2015
SCCA CLUB RACING

Major or National Events
All Classes*(Except SM)
1st Place - 2 Tires
2nd Place - 1 Tire 

*Note: There must be a minimum of three (3) cars that start the race in your class in order to claim a 1st place award and a minimum of five (5) cars that start the race in your class to claim a 2nd place award. Tires will be awarded for a maximum of one official points paying race per day, and a maximum of two official points paying races per race weekend event (except SM). 
Spec Miata Payout Schedule 

National Event - (1st) 2 free tires, (2nd) 1 free tire

Major Event - (1st) 4 free tires, (2nd) 2 free tires, (3rd -– 8th) 1 free tire

Regional Event - (1st) 2 free tires, (2nd) 1 free tire

 

SCCA RUNOFFS

Product awards are presented to all eligible 1st place drivers at the 2014 SCCA Runoffs.  

In addition to the four (4) tire Runoffs award, Hoosier Racing Tire will award all eligible 2014 National Champions with four (4) free tires for each 2015 Club Racing National event in which they compete.    

There must be a minimum of three (3) cars that start the race in your class in order to claim a 1st place award. 

All Contingency Awards must be claimed no later than 30 days after the award was earned. Requests received after this date will be denied.
Spec Miata Runoffs Payout:

(1st)16 free tires,  (2nd)8 free tires,  (3rd)6 free tires,  (4th)4 free tires, (5th)4 free tires,  (6th – 10th)2 free tires

[Danny Steyn]

When is the last time you saw any mainstream Mazda marketing related to racing, amateur or otherwise? I'm not saying that their participation doesn't sell a few cars to racers and family, but that alone would hardly be worth all the effort.

Hi Steve - as you know I am a fan of your well thought out counter points, but this one I have to take exception to. If you attend any of the Mazda dinners at the Runoffs over the years, you will FULLY understand just HOW important Mazdas racing program is to their marketing efforts. Their slogan that more Mazdas are raced on any weekend than any other vehicle is a key component to many of their marketing campaigns, and when Mazdas have done well in high profile events there has been significant placement in print media. 

[MPR22]

Hoosier

 

SCCA CONTINGENCY AWARD
PROGRAM GUIDELINES & AWARDS
Updated: 2-17-2015
SCCA CLUB RACING

Major or National Events
All Classes*(Except SM)
1st Place - 2 Tires
2nd Place - 1 Tire 

*Note: There must be a minimum of three (3) cars that start the race in your class in order to claim a 1st place award and a minimum of five (5) cars that start the race in your class to claim a 2nd place award. Tires will be awarded for a maximum of one official points paying race per day, and a maximum of two official points paying races per race weekend event (except SM). 
Spec Miata Payout Schedule 

National Event - (1st) 2 free tires, (2nd) 1 free tire

Major Event - (1st) 4 free tires, (2nd) 2 free tires, (3rd -– 8th) 1 free tire

Regional Event - (1st) 2 free tires, (2nd) 1 free tire

 

SCCA RUNOFFS

Product awards are presented to all eligible 1st place drivers at the 2014 SCCA Runoffs.  

In addition to the four (4) tire Runoffs award, Hoosier Racing Tire will award all eligible 2014 National Champions with four (4) free tires for each 2015 Club Racing National event in which they compete.    

There must be a minimum of three (3) cars that start the race in your class in order to claim a 1st place award. 

All Contingency Awards must be claimed no later than 30 days after the award was earned. Requests received after this date will be denied.
Spec Miata Runoffs Payout:

(1st)16 free tires,  (2nd)8 free tires,  (3rd)6 free tires,  (4th)4 free tires, (5th)4 free tires,  (6th – 10th)2 free tires

Thank you for your input....?

[Bench Racer]

Thank you for your input....?

Your welcome.

 

I didn't have a clue what or how far the contingency went as I'm sure some others didn't know.

[MPR22]

Your welcome.

 

I didn't have a clue what or how far the contingency went as I'm sure some others didn't know.

Ah, got it. 

[DrDomm]

can i have your tires please ?

 

I only have one...for finishing 8th in a 9 finisher Major.  I imagine you understood my point, despite the wise-ass comment.

[DrDomm]

I think it's great that Hoosier gives anyone free tires.  I love that one I got for the 8th place finish, and I guess I forgot about the 4 at the 2013 Runoffs.

 

I just think it's inconsistent with the philosophy of the class to reward the elite of the class with further performance advantages, based on their success.  It doesn't foster parity (someone had to say the P word).  Anyway, it's not a huge deal.  I'll be happy to buy some tires if I get my new car together for the spring.

 

For the political minded...I think SM is the socialist class, and something like GT is the capitalist class. (my political terms might not be technically correct)

[Johnny D]

Maybe we should eliminate $5 trophies too so we can drop everyone's entry fees by $.50? 
 
Personally, I race a lot and use a lot of tires for two reasons...1) it's necessary to compete at the top 2) there's a correlation between going faster and consuming more tires.  Fortunately for me, I'm able to place high enough to benefit from the contingencies and it absolutely makes a significant difference in my annual spend.  In fact, it's one of the factors I consider when contemplating what/where to run.  It's also (and maybe primarily, especially in a spec series) an incentive to perform well...for everyone. 
 
Steve - you've made you're point and expressed your opinion.  Others, like me and maybe (probably?) those who buy the majority of SM tires, have different opinions.

But everyone see both side here, right ?

This is like robin hood backwards.
90 % are not going to get a tire.
Any difference from the compliance fee ??

It' s a big carrot to win but after a while of knocking on the door, when do you get tired ?? (I know it's a competition)
Is it good for the class if people run out of tires and $?
It may not make a difference at all.

Example, Marks going to win so who's getting 1 tire?

I guess will see how SRF goes and if will see Steve over there?

Toyo has their bucks, runs all the way back to 14th.
Just saying.

J~

[speedengineer]

I spent a lot of time this summer trying to decide which class I wanted to race in 2016.  It was either STL, SM, or PTE.  Considered all the advantages and negatives of each:  Cost to build for, participation #'s and their competitiveness, running costs, AND potential contingency awards.  It was very close, I almost went STL instead of SM.  I can tell you hands down I would have gone STL if SM didn't have any hoosier contingency. 

[Ron Alan]

I only have one...for finishing 8th in a 9 finisher Major.  I imagine you understood my point, despite the wise-ass comment.

Haha...I was dead serious!  But ok, if you feel it was wise-ass, do you think your claim you will take the trophy and not the tires is sincere? BTW...pretty sure the 2 rewards are not connected and you're free to accept both or none!

 

And to those not in favor of prizes...anyone realize how much MONEY Mazda awarded across the season?? $5000 for the runoffs winner and $3500 each for the West and East coast NASA Champs?? That was just for 1st...2nd and 3rd paid out as well. And how much was given out for the Majors?? Has the letter writing campaign to Mazda been started?

 

I call that INCENTIVE/MOTIVATION!! 

 

If Hoosier/Toyo ended contingencies, would one of the upsides be that more racers come out because of a $40 savings on a $1500 weekend?? No data to back it up but my gut tells me the opposite would happen for the companies...less sales due to lack of interest at the front! 

I hope those who don't want contingencies to realize a few dollars savings are not going out to dinner with their friends on race weekends. Also that they are only doing 2 laps in qualifying to save tires.

 

If you eat the whole steak...don't expect your money back if it was no good! 

[Johnny D]

I spent a lot of time this summer trying to decide which class I wanted to race in 2016. It was either STL, SM, or PTE. Considered all the advantages and negatives of each: Cost to build for, participation #'s and their competitiveness, running costs, AND potential contingency awards. It was very close, I almost went STL instead of SM. I can tell you hands down I would have gone STL if SM didn't have any hoosier contingency.

I'm just asking here...

If for some reason you don't score any or not very many tires in your 2016 run, what are your thoughts about 2017 ??
J~

[MPR22]

But everyone see both side here, right ?

This is like robin hood backwards.
90 % are not going to get a tire.
Any difference from the compliance fee ??

It' s a big carrot to win but after a while of knocking on the door, when do you get tired ?? (I know it's a competition)
Is it good for the class if people run out of tires and $?
It may not make a difference at all.

Example, Marks going to win so who's getting 1 tire?

I guess will see how SRF goes and if will see Steve over there?

Toyo has their bucks, runs all the way back to 14th.
Just saying.

J~

It does not run all the the way back to 14th, it skips p6-p10 for some weird reason.  

[Johnny D]

It does not run all the the way back to 14th, it skips p6-p10 for some weird reason.

True, and it's like $25, wow 

 

We're just talking here...

Is this good for the class ?

Would this keep a racer, racing ??

 

It's pissed me off a few times I did so well but didn't get anything. (6-10)

J~

[MPR22]

I think it's great that Hoosier gives anyone free tires.  I love that one I got for the 8th place finish, and I guess I forgot about the 4 at the 2013 Runoffs.

 

I just think it's inconsistent with the philosophy of the class to reward the elite of the class with further performance advantages, based on their success.  It doesn't foster parity (someone had to say the P word).  Anyway, it's not a huge deal.  I'll be happy to buy some tires if I get my new car together for the spring.

 

For the political minded...I think SM is the socialist class, and something like GT is the capitalist class. (my political terms might not be technically correct)

Not sure how Hoosier's and SCCA tire contingency program is inconsistent with the philosophy of the class.  The class has grown because of the competition, why compete if there is no reward?  To some the reward is hanging out with friends, some it is turning your best lap, for many the really competitive types its winning free stuff no matter how much it cost me to win it.  Maybe that is the gambler in me and not the accountant.  

 

Parity has no place in this conversation.  The class is not based on parity across the board, it just tries and fails to achieve it among cars.  

[MPR22]

True, and it's like $25, wow 

 

We're just talking here...

Is this good for the class ?

Would this keep a racer, racing ??

 

It's pissed me off a few times I did so well but didn't get anything. (6-10)

J~

I agree, at many races there is a big difference between p6 and p11 but that guy gets the freaking Toyo Bucks.  They didn't race harder to get that magic p14, hell i would never be able to tell you where I was in the race past p3, I just can't count and drive I guess.