139 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

I agree, at many races there is a big difference between p6 and p11 but that guy gets the freaking Toyo Bucks.  They didn't race harder to get that magic p14, hell i would never be able to tell you where I was in the race past p3, I just can't count and drive I guess.

I can only assume the thought is if your a mid packer but getting close to top 10, here's a bone ($25), next step P5, good luck.
Or keep running P11~14 and reduce your tire bill.

 

Still the $25 may be a bigger discount than no Hoosier Contingency/tire price reduction...

J~

[speedengineer]

I'm just asking here...

If for some reason you don't score any or not very many tires in your 2016 run, what are your thoughts about 2017 ??
J~

Then I'll get my act together and try harder for 2017!  As many have said, paying $10 more a tire is nothing compared to an annual racing budget.  A couple hundred bucks in total on a multiple thousand dollar budget....well la de freakin dah 

 

No doubt I won't win as many tires in 2016 as I have for the last several years.  Been averaging ~25 free hoosiers per season since 2012.  SM will be much more of a challenge...

[Johnny D]

Then I'll get my act together and try harder for 2017!  As many have said, paying $10 more a tire is nothing compared to an annual racing budget.  A couple hundred bucks in total on a multiple thousand dollar budget....well la de freakin dah 
 
No doubt I won't win as many tires in 2016 as I have for the last several years.  Been averaging ~25 free hoosiers per season since 2012.  SM will be much more of a challenge...

Yea, you and mark have this kind of 2 sided story. (no disrespect)

My life/racing depends on winning tires...

Oh, if I don't win I'll just try harder...

Well how long would you go if you wouldn't win any tires ever again ??

J~

[speedengineer]

Yea, you and mark have this kind of 2 sided story. (no disrespect)

My life/racing depends on winning tires...

Oh, if I don't win I'll just try harder...

Well how long would you go if you wouldn't win any tires ever again ??

J~

 

The purpose of racing (to me) is to try to win.  If I never ever finished well, after a few years I would probably get discouraged and find a different hobby.  Being able to buy tires for $10 cheaper certainly isn't going to keep me around, LOL.  Not everyone is like that, some people don't care about winning and are just out there to have fun.  If you're just out there to have fun, then you don't need stickers every weekend.....nor ever.  Heck, you can buy used scrub tires for $200 a set all day long year round.  And thanks to the new SM7 compound, they're barely even slower than fresh ones (within a half second probably). 

[tLinder]

I can only assume the thought is if your a mid packer but getting close to top 10, here's a bone ($25), next step P5, good luck.
Or keep running P11~14 and reduce your tire bill.

 

Still the $25 may be a bigger discount than no Hoosier Contingency/tire price reduction...

J~

 

 

To clarify Toyo's system is based on classified # of starters, so 11th-14th gets $50 if there are 19+ starters.

https://nasa-assets.....S911.S3.HC.pdf

 

I like the contingency bones to chase after (although money-wise I'd probably come out on top if they reduced the tire cost and ditched contingency).

Plus when your non-racing friends ask, you can tell them you can actually win real prize money that makes my racing appear justifiable (yes there's some sacasm in that comment). 

[dstevens]

I think it's great that Hoosier gives anyone free tires.  I love that one I got for the 8th place finish, and I guess I forgot about the 4 at the 2013 Runoffs.

 

I just think it's inconsistent with the philosophy of the class to reward the elite of the class with further performance advantages, based on their success.  It doesn't foster parity (someone had to say the P word).  Anyway, it's not a huge deal.  I'll be happy to buy some tires if I get my new car together for the spring.

 

For the political minded...I think SM is the socialist class, and something like GT is the capitalist class. (my political terms might not be technically correct)

 

The goal of a spec class (as spec as SM is anyway) is to provide a more or less equal platform of race vehicle.  It's not to ensure the other guy doesn't buy or win more tires than you.  It's not to ensure the other guy doesn't out spend you.   Those racers are being rewarded because of performance.  Those free tires are a very small part of the race budget of those total programs.  The guys that get free tires aren't winning because they get free tires.  They get free tires because they win.  The reason the free tire guys beat everyone isn't because of the free tires.  They be in the same position free tires or not.

 

The poli sci aspect of your observation, to be charitable, is not technically correct.  It's flat out wrong.  This is why I think it's not appropriate to use political comparisons in this context.  Most people in the US don't know what the tenets of socialism are and use it as a brickbat to demonize something rather than understand the full context of the structure or belief.  

Edited by dstevens, 12-10-2015 03:55 PM.

[Johnny D]

I would guess the tenants of socialism are the people that own socialist houses ?

Did you mean tenets ?
J~

[Johnny D]

Is the Toyo contingency a form a trickle down economics ?
J~

[dstevens]

I would guess the tenants of socialism are the people that own socialist houses ?

Did you mean tenets ?
J~

 

You don't have to own a socialist house, you can be a renter.

 

I'm blaming autocorrect even though I don't use it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Johnny D]

Knowing what you mean and not what you said is key around here.

It's all good. I left out my happy face on that one ^^

J~

[dstevens]

I took as good natured ribbing, certainly deserved.  Fortunately I caught the insure/ensure before I hit post.

[mhiggins10]

My dream one day is not to win trophies or championships or runoffs, but free tires.  That's how you know you REALLY arrived.

[Johnny D]

J~

[Andy Mitchell]

The purpose of racing (to me) is to try to win.  If I never ever finished well, after a few years I would probably get discouraged and find a different hobby. 

 

Gee, not trying to be offensive or anything, but that sort of attitude turns me off. Maybe it's a Canadian vs. American thing. I've fluked into a bit of Mazdas contingency money up here over the last couple of years (which was really cool, and boosted my ego more than you could ever imagine), but I'd never tell the rest of my buddies at the track that I'd pack it in and go home if I couldn't beat them.

 

Sorry, I'm not trying to cause a fuss. I'll try to shut up and mind my own business from here on out. :-) 

[Johnny D]

Gee, not trying to be offensive or anything, but that sort of attitude turns me off. Maybe it's a Canadian vs. American thing. I've fluked into a bit of Mazdas contingency money up here over the last couple of years (which was really cool, and boosted my ego more than you could ever imagine), but I'd never tell the rest of my buddies at the track that I'd pack it in and go home if I couldn't beat them.
 
Sorry, I'm not trying to cause a fuss. I'll try to shut up and mind my own business from here on out. :-)

We have a wide range of racers here.
His (SpeedE) thinking is what it takes to get tires/wins, some don't think this way, right?
It's all what your looking for, fun, wins, championships.

Kind of why I was asking the questions to the class/SCCA about the Hoosiers Contingency.
We have harder core racers in SCCA IMO, so this all or nothing could/should be fine/fun.
J~

[Bench Racer]

For my 2 cents worth, most of the front runners from this site that I've met at the track have egos that would keep them racing without contingency tires. Maybe after several Majors/Runoffs titles some would spend their recreational money else where. Sure, fish at $1,000.00 per pound.  

[Tom Scheifler]

o


Steve, everytime someone disagrees with you, you spend about 2 man hours trying to argue your point. The front runners buy more tires and should be rewarded for winning or at least performing well. Saving 20-40 dollars a set of tires for the field doesn't move the needle on decision making for most competitors. The opportunity to win something even something as small as one tire absolutely moves the needle for many competitors. The SCCA has chosen to push their Majors program, their greatest incentive to racers to attend is the tire contingency. So yes they are subsidizing the cost so a few can benefit but without it their program would suffer. We spend about 3-5k per Major in prep, travel and tires. If there is no cheese at the end of the chase then we won't travel. We take the risk that we will perform but without any reward why bother. We specifically went to Kansas based on contingency payouts this year. Too bad you didn't go, we could have raced.

 

 Heh heh.  Every time someone posts specific points that he disagrees with on a topic he's interested in he's gonna respond point by point to agree or disagree.  He may have the mistaken understanding that people, when presented with new thoughts, might consider changing their opinion.  People that want him to stop arguing his point should just post "I disagree". Then the most he'll do is ask why.

 

But really? You would skip the majors if there were no tire-cheese?

[JRHille]

For my 2 cents worth, most of the front runners from this site that I've met at the track have egos that would keep them racing without contingency tires. Maybe after several Majors/Runoffs titles some would spend their recreational money else where. Sure, fish at $1,000.00 per pound.

You're probably right

[38bfast]

Fee tires or not wont keep racers from racing but it may change the amount of races they may attended.

[Johnny D]

Fee tires or not wont keep racers from racing but it may change the amount of races they may attended.

I assume you mean free...

So how many different people in your region won tires ??

Just trying to get an idea of the number of people this is effecting.

Or it's the perceived "prize" that effect many more on attendance ?
J~