284 replies to this topic

[Tom Sager]

 Tom's Q back (Cutler) was a head case long before the Bears got him. Ask any of our Denver friends.

 

He is definitely not "my" QB.  He should have been gone when they signed him to that big fat contract.     That move by the Bears was akin to buying a new engine for a NA 1.8 SM and believing you can win with that instead of investing in a younger athletic VVT car.  

[Bench Racer]

Sounds to me like the Midget driver wanted you to move to the grass first. 

 

There is another team, the Chicago Cubs, playing in a playoff game tonight.  We've given up on the Bears this year.  However, I'd say all the pressure is on the Packers tonight because we know the Bears suck and if they somehow win, it won't be good for the Pack or their fans.  

Your point one, if he thought I was going to take the classic line/outside he would have moved me to the grass drivers right, wasn't going to happen.

 

Congrats on your Cubs, one more game and they tangle a$$ with the Indians. IIRC the Packers are picked 30 to 17 and if they get beat it's time for Huntley. They F'ed up last Friday praying Callaway would clear waivers/reclaim for practice squad and he is now a Saint. 

[Johnny D]

Your point one, if he thought I was going to take the classic line/outside he would have moved me to the grass drivers right, wasn't going to happen.

 

 

 

It's clear he needs to be moved to the faster run group.

J~

[Peter Olivola]

Wasn't there.  Can't respond to the specifics.  Will only say that we have always taught the overtaken driver to stay on his normal line, that it is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to figure a way around.  Going off line creates an unexpected situation for the overtaking driver and does no one a favor.

 

Short note from tis past weekend at the Farm.

 

Me being lapped by the race group leading car which was an F production car with a couple SM in tow. Farm drivers will get the picture. Previous laps I had observed these cars closing the gap to me. At T 3d sharp right hander, thru the next T a rather sharp left hander and approaching T4 I stayed drivers left, driving with left hand and pointing right with right hand to classic line allowing the full racing line to those about to lap me. The F production car laps me drivers left with two wheels in  the grass. Talked with the guy after the race, told him how easy it would have been for me to wipe out the passengers side of his plastic car and all he could say is, do you know how long I've been racing.   End of conversation and walked away.

 

Peter, comments??? 

[Bench Racer]

 

Wasn't there.  Can't respond to the specifics.  Will only say that we have always taught the overtaken driver to stay on his normal line, that it is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to figure a way around.  Going off line creates an unexpected situation for the overtaking driver and does no one a favor.

Peter, I understand/get that ^ and normally do that ^. Between T3d and T5 I know where I'd have been forced by the F prod car and two SM's. 

[Rob Burgoon]

Wasn't there.  Can't respond to the specifics.  Will only say that we have always taught the overtaken driver to stay on his normal line, that it is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to figure a way around.  Going off line creates an unexpected situation for the overtaking driver and does no one a favor.

 

Depends on how early you do it.  Holding your line and holding the racing line are two different things.

[davew]

On this part of the track, holding the racing line for T3D would have forced the overtaking driver to go off line for T4, which does not allow room for the slower driver to remain on the racing line. This pass has to be done with 100% cooperation between both (4 drivers in this case) drivers. As both will eventually be off line at some point during the passing event. As much as I like to argue with Davey dew, in this incidence, going off line is preferable as long as it is done early and with assertiveness and a hand wave. Why the FP car went even farther off line (race line is drivers right, Dew went left and FP went farther left into grass) I can not say. Note that it was a 3 car pack overtaking Dewey, FP leader, Voytek and Mike Gagliardo (p6 at Runoffs) fighting for SM lead. Dewey did the right thing in this case.

 

Dave

[Jim Drago]

On this part of the track, holding the racing line for T3D would have forced the overtaking driver to go off line for T4, which does not allow room for the slower driver to remain on the racing line. This pass has to be done with 100% cooperation between both (4 drivers in this case) drivers. As both will eventually be off line at some point during the passing event. As much as I like to argue with Davey dew, in this incidence, going off line is preferable as long as it is done early and with assertiveness and a hand wave. Why the FP car went even farther off line (race line is drivers right, Dew went left and FP went farther left into grass) I can not say. Note that it was a 3 car pack overtaking Dewey, FP leader, Voytek and Mike Gagliardo (p6 at Runoffs) fighting for SM lead. Dewey did the right thing in this case.

 

Dave

Can we still blame dewey? It makes it a lot more fun for the rest of us

[Tom Sager]

Can we still blame dewey? It makes it a lot more fun for the rest of us

Absolutely.  Clearly he should have read the mind of the FP driver and checked to see if it was a left hand drive or right hand drive spridget before deciding where to yield. 

[Bench Racer]

Thanks Dave!!!

 

Absolutely.  Clearly he should have read the mind of the FP driver and checked to see if it was a left hand drive or right hand drive spridget before deciding where to yield. 

The F prod driver was  in a right hand drive car and I knew that from qualifying.    

 

Keeper flying Jim, it's always enjoyable.

[Jamz14]

Depends on how early you do it.  Holding your line and holding the racing line are two different things.

IMO rob is exactly right. Sometimes staying on the racing line is correct and sometimes off line in a definitive manner is the correct approach.

[FTodaro]

IMO rob is exactly right. Sometimes staying on the racing line is correct and sometimes off line in a definitive manner is the correct approach.

I think racing school teaching for the overtaken car to stay on line causes confusion. The typical example is when you catch a slower car in the braking zone, they are wide and you are trying to pass them by going to the apex (on inside), and they turn down on you or the opposite, where they are on your inside and they track out into you, Just staying on the race line is not the answer the answer.  IMO it is better  to pick what half the track you want and stay there so if your on the outside, when you are caught, stay there or if your on the inside stay don't track out. 

 

The other thing that we should teach/encourage is to point cars by, nothing wrong with telegraphing your intentions.

 

I find that this is done much more in NASA with the mix class racing, as they know they are not racing the out of class car (most of the time) but in SCCA where we are all miata's Some times the lapped cars are thinking  your racing for position when they are getting lapped, or act like it.

[Johnny D]

I think racing school teaching for the overtaken car to stay on line causes confusion. The typical example is when you catch a slower car in the braking zone, they are wide and you are trying to pass them by going to the apex (on inside), and they turn down on you or the opposite, where they are on your inside and they track out into you, Just staying on the race line is not the answer the answer.  IMO it is better  to pick what half the track you want and stay there so if your on the outside, when you are caught, stay there or if your on the inside stay don't track out. 

 

The other thing that we should teach/encourage is to point cars by, nothing wrong with telegraphing your intentions.

 

I find that this is done much more in NASA with the mix class racing, as they know they are not racing the out of class car (most of the time) but in SCCA where we are all miata's Some times the lapped cars are thinking  your racing for position when they are getting lapped, or act like it.

 

Aren't you (the overtaken car) supposed to be predictable ??

 

J~

[Ron Alan]

Aren't you (the overtaken car) supposed to be predictable ??

 

J~

I think pointing a finger is pretty f---ing predictable dont you! 

 

And as some have eluded to...if you think someone/all are going to be predictable you will be going home unhappy(no matter what they taught you in driver school)! Point being only thing you can predict is where you are going to bail to as the over taking driver!

[Johnny D]

I think pointing a finger is pretty f---ing predictable dont you! 

 

And as some have eluded to...if you think someone/all are going to be predictable you will be going home unhappy(no matter what they taught you in driver school)! Point being only thing you can predict is where you are going to bail to as the over taking driver!

 

Can we get opinions from drivers that actually have some race track experience. Maybe ask Dan and check back with us.

 

I know when I'm coming down on a lapper what's most important is where he's going.

On line, off line or follow him thru a corner but the sudden changes are what F's me up.

 

J~

[Ron Alan]

Can we get opinions from drivers that actually have some race track experience. Maybe ask Dan and check back with us.

 

I know when I'm coming down on a lapper what's most important is where he's going.

On line, off line or follow him thru a corner but the sudden changes are what F's me up.

 

J~

Haha...then you agree with me!(sudden changes)

 

And I'm sure you feel every Coach...be it amateur or professional isn't credible if they haven't played the sport?

 

Dont be so sensitive...just make statements of your opinion rather than things that end in a question mark! 

 

And to your question...YES, all drivers should be predictable...especially when being passed(and a point to which direction they want the passer to go is a good start on being predictable). BUT...some were asleep at drivers school and continue to drive like a horse with blinders on! So MY point was there is ideal and then there is reality! But that is coming from a non-driver so take it as just my opinion and not fact Mr Moderator    I would not want to steer you in the wrong direction(like that play on words  )

[MotoFusi]

I believe Frank is right. My first night at Eldora in a sprint car I was scared shitless. I got a great piece of advise from Jack Hewitt. Stay in the middle so there is room for faster guys to go inside or outside. Of course there are no mirrors in sprint cars..... LOL

 

If someone is faster than me, I will point them by until two laps to go then you must earn it.

[davew]

The older I get, the faster I was. But at least I keep getting older  Knowing what I know now, I would not have passed myself out of drivers school.

 

As an instructor I reinforce driver to driver communication. Hand signals are a must. And red gloves make you much more visible. Also the easiest place to be passed is on a straight away. Come out of the corner and when you go to upshift only go to 50% throttle while you wave the car by. You will only loose a couple tenths and the fast guy may show you something in the next corner.

 

Find a slow guy (maybe he is old and slow like me, or a newbie, or just in a slow car) who is friends with the fast guys and you will find someone who knows how to be passed. Knowing how to be passed is just as important to knowing how to pass. especially in mixed group races.

 

dave

[Mike Colangelo]

Nobody is better than me at being passed.  

[Bench Racer]

Nobody is better than me at being passed.  

Ahhh, don't know about that.