199 replies to this topic

[Nsparks]

Mr Pink the incident you are referring to happened 7 laps into the race. I will have a video of it up in a little while. It's debatable as to what happened in this incident. I am extremely sorry to Cliff that he got caught up in the issue.

[Mr.Pink]

Driver is fine, I have nothing more to say

OUCH!! I didn't see it at the track.That is ugly

[Butch Kummer]

Just to be clear, the incident on Saturday (which generated the Life Flight and red-flagged the race) was reportedly a single-car incident. Car got wide at the exit of 10-B, went over the rumble strips (which are particularly bad there), rear end came around and hit the left-side bridge abutment driver-side first.

[Mitch Reading]

Class act, as always, Danny.

[Alex Bolanos]

Danny
You didn't say anything of substance either:)

Long story short... Voyteks car is destroyed, several others are damaged from some over the top aggressive driving by a few people. From what I have seen, Voytek tends to block far more than most of us and drives pretty aggressively. The lap the crash happened, Jeff Labounty was being pushed down the back straight by Chip Vanvurst, they were attempting to overtake Voytek. Voytek swerved left to block, then all the way right and then all the way back to the left. At that point Chip and Labounty were committed as Chip was locked on Labounty's bumper. At that point, all hell broke loose and Voytek spun off into the wall, Jeff spun across the track collecting Nathaniel Sparks. I am friendly with all involved, so I am just stating facts and had a pretty good view as I was right behind Chip. I hate that Voyteks car was destroyed and glad he is OK along with all others. It could have been a lot worse.

You get one move... When you make three on the same straight after making several blocks earlier in the race, including two on me, it tends to get the tempers and red mist flying. Voytek comes from European style of racing where blocking is much more readily "accepted" and probably expected. It is not here accepted in the states, apparently not tolerated at all in CFL region. Blocking last year cost me about $5000 and a concussion, where I was a complete innocent bystander, leading a race and two cars came together and speared into my brand new car as I made the turn at Canada corner. MOVE ONE TIME, take your line and defend the hell out of it, but zig zagging down the back straight to defend your position is never acceptable and often very dangerous. Personally, I'll give anyone one block... If your a friend, maybe even two. Had I gotten to Voytek ( who I consider a friend) and he blocked me again, he was going around, albeit in a much safer place then the back straight. You get one move in front of me, I'll even give one block, maybe two, after that, expect to be nudged or turned some where. That goes for friends, teammates or anyone else. I would expect the same.


Jim

Just wanted to quote this for emphasis and add that I also noticed (and have video) of Voytek driving very dangerously this weekend. He made several defensive moves on myself, Blake, and others during the race and I am not at all surprised at the outcome. I'm glad he is ok and hope he learns that not everyone will just tolerate block swerving on track.

[KentCarter]

Dammit Drago. You know the rules. You do NOT get ONE MOVE in SCCA. You get ZERO moves.

2011 GCR:
6.11. RULES OF THE ROAD
6.11.1 On Course Driver Conduct
A. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.
B. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally
defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.
C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.
D. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.

The rules are clear. The dangers of blocking are obvious yet stewards are focused on 'bump drafting'. Asinine.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

way to go. kent

[Andrew Charbonneau]

I was not there on track , so in reply to danny stain is not to instagate .

your quote (From what I have seen, Voytek tends to block far more than most of us and drives pretty aggressively.) end quote danny

[Andrew Charbonneau]

Bye the way danny jeff in his racing time has wrecked less trying to yours haveing messed up alot of your own cars. hummmm

watkensglen jumprope at savvanna, not your fight or mine . talked to votec two times at track this weekend .

I like him off track and his caveman buddie ,and even weeler tooo . glad he is ok

maybe he should of circle tracked race he can block alll he wants

you missed it too danny watch vidio

[Rob Burgoon]

I'll even give one block, maybe two, after that, expect to be nudged or turned some where. That goes for friends, teammates or anyone else. I would expect the same.


Jim

Agreed. Punt the illegal blockers.

By the by, if you guys put oval racing on your schedule, you might want to sit down with an oval racer and decide if you want to race by SCCA rules or oval rules or some kind of hybrid.

[Mr.Pink]

So,just to clarify this for everyone (including me),Voytek was blocking( alot apparently) and he was taken out on purpose or did his swerving catch someone else and cause the wreck?

While blocking REALLY pisses me off too I can't condone or even understand taking someone out at the fastest spot of a racetrack with walls on both sides.If they had to lifeflight him out would that have proven the point better?Theres a lot of corners with gravel traps IF it really needed to be done.

[Cliff Brown USMC]

First off, congrats to Blake for the two wins he earned this weekend. Hats off for a guy who barely shows up to Road Atlanta and beats veterans with years of experience there. Second, I think we have a new, exciting opportunity for an annual, full spec miata, scca National rules circle track event at Lanier Speedway for years to come. Many of us showed up and had no idea how much fun it was going to be. It was a bucket list event and those of you who missed it surely will want to attend next year. EVERYONE was smiling when they got out of the cars. The Lanier staff were very professional and very surprised that we could race side by side, max speed, 3 wide in turns without any major incidents and doing it in 16 seconds. We even had our own SCCA fan section with dirty t shirts, beer drinking and hell raising. I can set it up next year and have it as a support series race before their big event races so we can show the fans something they have never seen. It will be roughly $ 200 to enter with practice and qualifying rounds and then 20 lap sprint races. I know this will catch on. More on this later.
As for the race on Sunday, its hard to fathom a more dire prediction than what took place. Anyone starting 5th or back is always in trouble and in the kill zone. I was in it and I knew it was going to happen. With the line up I was in, I actually thought about starting in the rear. I will say that many drivers lacked professional skills and need to learn them quick or they are going to get hurt physically.I mean hurt in preventable crashes. Blocking on turn 11 and 12, turn 1, 3, 5, 6 ,7 and 10b are uncalled for. I would say that I know the track well and that in order to win a race there the only viable passing points are after 5, after 7 to 10, after the bridge and down the straight. Let me say again, these are the only places you can pass WITHOUT losing the leaders. You can pass anywhere on this track but you will lose the race guaranteed if you pass in any other turn. You are only scrubbing your speed and not using the draft to your advantage. This is the most technical track in the S.E. and it takes skill to master it. Anyone can do a quick lap there but to put it together lap after lap is how you win there. Blocking once is OK with me, once. I have done it when I had a bad run and screwed up a corner but knew I would be able to check out on the next turn. And the racer knows that I will check out and move forward. And not an obvious, darting block might I add. More to follow. I have to drink a beer. : )

[Cliff Brown USMC]

With that said it was not a great race. I also know that we have to race each other in the future for years to come and that there is now a lot of bad blood out there. This has to be done maturely and diplomatically. Hell. I'm a Marine and look for a fight anytime I can find it but let's think about what we say. Words have consequences and what you say cannot be taken back. We all have faults and Lord knows I have many. I have respect for ALL of my fellow racers and I consider ALL of you my friends. However, cheating up engines to run up front is not OK, blocking every lap is not OK, red mist and however it happened is not OK. This can either fester to a boiling point or it all needs to be put on the line now. I have no grudges toward any man here so I will say what no one will. Voytec raced me cleanly. However he blocked me as well. No biggie to me. I screwed up many turns after my top flew off that I am sure he was frustrated with my going topless.I can only comment on what I saw and he did block numerous times. I also blocked him. Dave Colledge, I have known you since 2005.You are my Panoz friend. You are a great guy in my book but your car is WAY too fast for me. I have one of the top engines in the S.E. I have had my engine for over a year and it has been gone through like a whore in China by the SCCA/ NASA numerous times in tech including the run offs. When you can pass Drago, Sandlin, Labounty,Steyn and other top contenders down the straight at 7 something is wrong. I am not at all implying you yourself are a bad driver. I am saying that when we all have the same exit speed at turn 5 and 7 and you pass us by 3 car lengths????. Your engine is going to be gone through next time. I assure you. You need to talk to your builder.This is not me talking. This is everyone. And all of you who are accusing Colledge of cheating you had better put your money where you mouth is. N.Sparks, I think you are young, a very good initial driver who qualifies well and with experience you will do well. You too need to learn that blocking in turn 11, 1 and down the back straight will be your demise. I accept your apology as I know it was not totally your fault. When I first started racing I was much like you. However, I respected the veteran racers and would never block them. You have to earn their respect or it's over for you to get anywhere with them. Trust me, I would wreck rather that screw up their race as I could always get on the pole but I was too inexperienced to keep it constant. As far as the wrecks I can only say that you get what you deserve. There are only so many blocks, weaves, hard brakes that I could put up with. So, lets get it all out now so we can move forward. If you have balls, show them and say what you really feel. I have. If you dont speak up now, Shut the $%ck up and hide in your hole. Nuff said from me.
Semper Fi! I look forward to seeing all of you in VA and racing clean.
Cliff Brown

[Blake Clements]

First off, thanks to everyone for the congratulations and being part of such a great weekend last weekend.

Despite the events being mentioned above by many people, I think many of us had a GREAT weekend and had a lot of fun. That is why we do this, and we need not forget that. We ALL need to realize that we ALL have to go to work, school, and back to our families on Sunday/Monday after the race weekend is over. We all make mistakes, but lets not make a habit of it.

Saturday's National was a great race with me and Cliff as we worked together to gap the rest of the pack. He drove a great race and did not make any mistakes. Congrats on your first National win!. The Pro-IT was as exciting as expected, and I always find those races to be some sort of a disaster. After an exciting first few laps, I decided to fall into the back of the lead pack and work on saving my tires for the end of the race. Cliff, Alex Bolanos, Eric Foss, and I worked to catch Voytek who had an excellent start and got some out of class cars between us and him. I still wonder how I won that race, but I tried to minimize my mistakes after I made some sizable ones in the beginning of the race. Lap traffic was a killer and ended up with a few of us making offroad excursions to avoid.

I knew with two Pombo's in the top 4 that the strategy was simple for Sunday's National - make yourself part of the Pombo sandwich. I linked up with Mark on the start and set out to push him away from the rest of the pack and we could battle late in the race. This was working out quite well unti the double yellow for Voytek and Nate Sparks. I thought my race was over when the double yellow came out as I knew Mat and Alex would be ready to pounce on the restart, and I was right. After the restart, I set back to drafting with Mark as I had at the beginning of the race. I made a major mistake on lap 17 and got a terrible exit out of turn 7 and I look up to see Mat Pombo coming up in the mirror quickly. He flies past me and up on to the bumper of Mark, and I said to myself "this is over". I got a good run through 10A and 10B and Mat got the car loose on the rumbles at 10B, and I knew that it was my shot. I moved to the inside going under the bridge and was able to complete the pass by S/F and didn't lose much time to Mark. I followed him to turn 7 and got a good run and he protected the inside from 7 to 10A, I knew that Mat had started battling with Alex and wasn't going to be a factor. I dropped to the outside of Mark for a good old fashioned drag race to 10A. Somehow, I broke 30 feet later than normal and the Carbotech's got me stopped and turned for 10A and was able to edge out Mark for the win. It is refreshing to race with Cliff, Mat, Mark, and Alex because they show you respect on the track.

This was a nice finish to a great few weeks back in America. See you guys sooner, rather than later.

-BFC

[Dave C]

I typically don't post here much, but being called out for cheating on this forum is very disturbing to me. I have always enjoyed this class of racing, a lot of great and talented guys and the race weekends are something I really look forward to. I must say that this last weekend was not our finest hour as evidenced by track incidents, people giving the bird out the window on track and a lot of trash talking behind peoples backs.

I had one driver actually approach me and make a comment about my engine and another accuse me of using fuel. The fuel thing is pretty ridiculous and pretty easy to tell. Unless OPM is spiking the stuff I borrowed from them. I did call my engine builder and he assured me that my engine is legal and not to be concerned about a tear down. I guess I need to watch the video to see these 3 car length passes of all the top drivers down the back straight. I do recall getting passed myself there a number of times.

Winning is not important enough to me to cheat or to drive unfairly or uncleanly and I guess it says something about my perceived driving skills if my 10th and 7th place finishes caused concern about my motor being illegal. Racing is still a lot of fun and I don't have to be winning to enjoy it as long as I know I am doing my best and doing it fairly.

[Danny Steyn]

Guys

This is how I see it. Just my opinion, nothing else

The drivers at the front all drive the hell out of their cars. The talent at the front is deep. We all want to win. We all believe we can win. But we will not win every time. To win you have to qualify well, get a great start, and drive a mistake free race. Few of us get that mix right every time.

On those occasions that we don’t, we get frustrated. Frustrated with ourselves, and with the others around us. We believe we should be at the front so it must be that the other drivers are holding us back. The red mist descends.

I did not have a good weekend, I qualified well, had some decent starts, but made too many mistakes, and on Sunday’s race my restart was abysmal. In my frustration with myself I over drove and went slower. Game over. I know better.

Throughout the weekend, and after the weekend there were lots of comments being made, some were said to me personally by drivers that came to see me, and some were sent in the form of emails, texts and PM’s.

The issues I have are as follows……

• If you have a problem with Voytek, speak to Voytek, don’t ask me to speak to him. That’s why I respect Andrew so much. He will seek you out and speak his mind. You know where you stand with him.
• I am sick of the statement, “I like XXXXXX off the track, but on the track XXXX can be a real idiot”. If that’s the case speak, to XXXXXX, and let him know how you feel. What we should care about is how each one of us conduct ourselves ON the track, that is where the danger lies. How great a friend he is to you off the track is not the issue.
• If you believe I am using fuel, come and ask me.” Danny are you using Fuel?” No, I was not, but this is the 2^nd weekend in a row where I have had heard the backhand rumors. We all smelled something. My eyes did not water so I think it was something else, possibly a fuel additive, so maybe it is the time to put up the money and do some testing.
• Blocking is FORBODEN. As Drago says, you get one move. I have had 5 races with Chip this year that ended in wins and losses by hundredths of a second. Chip made his one move and stuck to it. He never weaved. He earns my respect for that.
• But I will tell you outright, I will NEVER put someone in a wall at over 100mph because he is pissing me off. Not going to happen. I do not want someone’s death on my conscience. 99.9% of the time I am sure that it would end up OK, but he could bounce back into the path of someone else, and who knows, there could be several fatalities, especially at that spot at Road Atlanta.
• I did not see the incident where Jeffy put Voytek into the wall, but many did and ALL said that it was intentional, including some of his friends. All said that Voytek deserved it, and several said that they would have punted Voytek off, but not at that spot. So be it.
• But Jeff himself, after pushing Voytek into the wall, bounced back himself into the path of the following pack. Sparks had nowhere to go. Sandlin was on his left and Sparks drove head on into the corner of Jeffys (Andrew’s car). They got lucky, there was no injury. Voytek was also lucky, he escaped injury, but his car is done.
• And three laps before, a the exact same spot, Jeffy moved over on Sparks flipping Sparks the bird, and pushed Sparks into Brown, and Brown ended up in the wall. Yes I heard that Sparks was over driving and bumping others in the wrong places, and screwing up corners. He is a young, fast kid, speak to him and coach him and mentor him. Pushing him into Brown and ruining Browns race is not the way to fix his over enthusiasm.
• Cars damaged, Brown, Sparks, Labounty, Voytek……. Not a good weekend in my opinion.

So here I go. Jeff Labounty, this is for you. I mean this with all humility and sincerity as a fellow driver in this class we love.

Jeff, you have always raced me cleanly every time and I respect you for that. I hope that I have earned your respect on the track.

But I ask you nicely, here in public where I am sure I am making all kind of enemies by doing this….. please, for the sake of our class, please tone it down. None of us need to get hurt in this sport that we are doing for FUN.

Jeff, I will race you hard and cleanly. I will drive the snot out of my car to try and beat you. I expect you to do the same. I will defend my line, and I will make my one move, but I will not block you. If you have the pass, I will let you have it and try and get it back at the next opportunity. This season is long, and I know we are going to be racing each other for many years to come. None of us need bad blood in this sport. It just destroys the FUN factor. Thanks Jeff, and I will come and speak to you personally at VIR. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way.

……….

And I would like to end off by saying how impressed I was with Blake. Just as Cliffie pointed out, Blake arrived at RA and was fast immediately. He had one hell of a weekend. Congrats too to Cliffie for his first National Spec Miata win. Long time coming Cliffie. You deserved it, and you are one of the true gentlemen of the class, despite what your avatar says!!! And the Pombo’s are back. After getting their asses handed to them on Saturday, they bounced back like they always do, and were screamingly fast on Sunday. Matt and Mark, welcome back, the field at the pointy end just got way deeper.

Drago and Pat, sorry to see you guys not in the hunt. Andrew, you drove on hell of a race in SRF, to come back from a distant 5^th place and catch up with the leaders was really impressive. Sorry your weekend wasn’t better.

Nate Sparks, you are going to be one hell of a driver. You are a nice guy, and as you mature I believe you have the talent to be one of the fastest. Sometimes the man-drama in this class gets really thick. Don’t let this weekend discourage you. Calm down, work at it and this class will be better off for your presence and skill.

Thanks guys for reading. Some of you will see my side, some wont. But I tell you this that I care about the long term future of this class. I want parity for the 1.6 and 99. I want to see the rift between NASA and SCCA healed with respect to SM. And most importantly I want to have fun each weekend competing with my buddies in this great class that gives us so much enjoyment.



Two more comments

• Butch – Registration process was abysmal at Road Atlanta this weekend. To stand in line for 1-1/2 hours is NOT good. Something serious really needs to be done
• SCCA – we need more tech in the garage for SM, otherwise we will start to see the spec creep.
  
  

[pat slattery]

Any one willing to post some video?

[dmathias]

No problem Pat.

[Jim Drago]

Butch
I have to agree with Danny. There was one window open Friday morning. I politely pointed out to the one very nice lady that she could sure use some help at a double national where the line was around the block. Many missed qualifying because of it. I was told "well, I had to take off work to be here and volunteer since it was on a Friday and many could not take off'. That is understandable. All I could think of while on line was everyone behind me was paying roughly the same $300.00 that I was. We inconvenienced 150 plus drivers easily. Why not take the entries from one or two of us and pay some people to come in? Even from a temp agency if this were the case? Seems crazy that we put our customers in this position. I know all were not too happy about it, I'm sure you heard about it.
Jim

[Andrew Charbonneau]

To dave Im sorry I said you were CHEATING , but I was in your draft for 8 laps took three days to get the smell of off me and my new national winning race uniform MELTED i want another one