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Road Atlanta Double National results?

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#41
George Munson

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Well Played Danny, Well played! If we get back to just racing and not playing bumper cars maybe those of us with shallower pockets can step off the sidelines and enjoy racing again. :D

#42
Jim Drago

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I didn't smell fuel all week, well other than the three gallons I dumped in Andrews rental car that was in left my trailer from last year. I begged Andrew to park his running rental near the OPM tent, so we could go up and accuse Danny of running fuel, :P :lol: it stunk worse in Andrews rental than normal.
That was truly the only fuel I smelled all weekend?
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#43
Dave C

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Andrew, I am thinking it might have been another kind of gas. I had a brat for lunch and it didn't sit too well.

#44
Butch Kummer

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I am well aware of the issues in Registration and they will be addressed before the next event. Normally we open SCCA registration and Express Tech when Test Day registration is open but when Road Atlanta initially told us they couldn't offer a test day I left Early Registration off the schedule. When the test day was resurrected I did not change the SCCA registration schedule. My bad.

I was also told there were an inordinately large number of folks with expired or inaccurate credentials, so the line moved slower than usual. Obviously having to verify memberships/licenses on the SCCA database slows things down.

Finally, we had over 200 entries when this event has averaged right at 150 over the last three years.

Bottom line - we'll fix it.

Butch Kummer

Former SCCA Director of Club Racing (2012-2014)


#45
Rob Burgoon

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Blocking is FORBODEN. As Drago says, you get one move.



No.... you get zero. The one move you speak of is your personal tolerance, not that of the rules.
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#46
Mr.Pink

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[quote name='Rob Burgoon' timestamp='1300893428' post='4602']
No.... you get zero. The one move you speak of is your personal tolerance, not that of the rules.
[/

The one move is what the Stewards would let pass on video because you are allowed to change your racing line.Changing your line back and forth or weaving is blocking.

#47
Rob Burgoon

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The one move is what the Stewards would let pass on video because you are allowed to change your racing line.Changing your line back and forth or weaving is blocking.


The stewards aren't always known for following the GCR.

"Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car"

The plural there could suggest 1 move is ok, but later it says that the driver may not impede a car attempting to pass. I read that as even one line change in response to pressure is a block.

All moot though since the stewards have final say and their personal tolerance may well be 1 move before they consider taking action.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#48
Jim Creighton

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I want to respond to a couple of items I'm directly involved in and comment on a couple of others. My official status here is "no body".

First, the Atlanta Region and Butch are well aware of the registration problem and will insure it doesn't happen again. I'll take a little of the blame. I was working tech on Thursday doing walk around annuals. When I went up to registration to get my credential, I saw the long line and two windows open. I assumed they had more help on the way and didn't "volunteer" to help. After 17 years of Pro Cup and Trans Am registration, I should have recognized a problem and jumped in to help. My bad! One more window, an express one no one has a problem- just sign and get a credential, would have halved the time in line for all. Apologies to all.

On the subject of more tech. First, SM no longer pays the compliance fee of $10 which basically means SM gets the same attention as all other classes. You and I both know SM still gets more attention than any other class but nothing like it was back when we had the $10 compliance fee. We actually looked at several performance items this weekend, items that could be done without any disassembly. Tech is very limited by the current GCR. If we decide to check items that require invasive tear downs, the Region is required to post a tear down bond just like another competitor filing a protest. Of course, anything like this must be cleared by the Chief Steward. The GCR says:
8.1.3. Chief Steward’s Action Against a Car
The Chief Steward may initiate an action against a car for non-compliance
using a CSA or RFA. The procedures are the same as when one competitor
protests the compliance of another’s car (see 8.3.3.), except that the
organizer replaces the protestor regarding expenses and the Chief Steward
replaces the Chairman.

And fuel protests now require a $250 bond. If you suspect someone is using swamp gas, I would suggest you go discuss it with the Chief Steward. In that discussion, I would ask the Chief Steward to impound the car after the race and then proceed with the fuel protest. Although the GCR does state protests must be filed 30 minutes before a race, there are circumstances where the 30 minutes will be waived. It's hard to protest gas since it may be sitting in a can in the trailer until right before the car goes to the grid.

Anyhow, back to SM compliance. I plan to be at VIR for the Double National. Send me a personal email giving me a max of two items you would like checked in impound. I will get with the Chief of tech and the Chief Steward and discuss some items from your emails wish list. I will only consider items from either entrants or drivers entered in the race. I have the Division whistler and bore/stroke gauge along with the fuel testing equipment in my motorhome. Remember, I can't take a car apart without the Region posting a bond and they most likely won't look kindly on my spending their $$. My email is jcreig53@mindspring.com.

It's too late for this year, but what you might discuss is requesting the SEDiv to institute a SM compliance fee to be used for addition compliance at SEDiv events. Since the majority of SEDiv events are either Nationals, SARRC or ECR events, we could incorporate as a Divison wide policy. The $$ could be used to cover expenses for a SM tech inspector to travel to random events throughout the division.

Finally, blocking, bump drafting, etc. is forbidden by the GCR. I suggest you go to the Chief Steward and ask that a specific driver be watched for these violations. At most SCCA races, the Chief Steward/operating steward must rely on the reports called in from the corner workers. However, he can ask in advance of the race that specific violations be called to his attention. Generally, he will not single out specific cars. When a violation is called in, especially if it multiple times, he can take action. And at several tracks, he has the benefit of having live camera coverage of most of the track. I'm pretty sure VIR is one and I know Barber is another.

I do urge that if you have a problem with a driver on track, you go speak to the driver. If that doesn't fix it, then you need to file a protest. I know it sounds like telling the teacher, but it is the only way, legally, to deal with the problem. Of course, I can say that now. As a National driver, I always told my fellow competitors that I never got mad on track, I got even. So, do as I say, not as I did!

And the next time you want to go to short track racin' at Lanier, let me know. Timmy the flagmen, is a friend and I probably can get you added into the regular Sat night program especially if there's 20 or more cars. We could come up with an entry fee that covers your pit pass and could pay a little purse. You'd have a practice, a qualifying and 50 lap race. Heck, South Boston Speedway is only a 20 minute drive from VIR. Only problem is they're having a NASCAR K & N series race on VIR National weekend. Can't play on a pro weekend. Maybe the Double SARRC!

#49
Tom Sager

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The stewards aren't always known for following the GCR.

"Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car"

The plural there could suggest 1 move is ok, but later it says that the driver may not impede a car attempting to pass. I read that as even one line change in response to pressure is a block.

All moot though since the stewards have final say and their personal tolerance may well be 1 move before they consider taking action.


So does anyone know what the Stewards did as a result of the various incidents. Did they take any action?
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#50
Chains

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First I would like to say congrats to "The Marine" for his first National win, hard to beleive he is so fast there and this is his first win. Congrats to BFC on his wins this weekend, "Damn that fat kid can drive" is usually what most of us say..

I know Cliff Brown does not post alot here on the forums, and when he does most of us pay a little closer attention because of the respect that we all have for him as a person and a racer. I think what he said is spot on, and alot of us should pay attention,not only because it makes sense, but also he has alot of guns, and like to shoot things.....alot!!!

I had alot of fun this weekend, from the St Pattys Day BIKINI CONTEST to the Lanier speedway SM heat races. I never seem to do very well at RA, and being in a 1.6 did not help me much this weekend. (I gave my 99 to one of my best friends, I think he drives it more than I do).

From the hospitality of Cliff Brown to the rental car in/out of the ditch by our national champion Von C, the memories we have from the events are usually so much more than what we do on track.

LAST, Everyone that knows me, knows I race clean, I very rarely get mad on track, and would never act on it....yet, I found myself recently wanting to tie a competitor to my tow hook and drag him, not for a lap, but for an entire race, by the neck around the track. I even went to his pit stall for some friendly face to fist contact. Who you ask could make some this mad, that in 3+ years has never had any type of incident...........VOYTEK....you are a disease that needs to be STOPPED before it spreads to the best class SCCA or NASA has.
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#51
Nsparks

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N.Sparks, I think you are young, a very good initial driver who qualifies well and with experience you will do well. You too need to learn that blocking in turn 11, 1 and down the back straight will be your demise. I accept your apology as I know it was not totally your fault. When I first started racing I was much like you. However, I respected the veteran racers and would never block them. You have to earn their respect or it's over for you to get anywhere with them. Trust me, I would wreck rather that screw up their race as I could always get on the pole but I was too inexperienced to keep it constant. As far as the wrecks I can only say that you get what you deserve. There are only so many blocks, weaves, hard brakes that I could put up with. So, lets get it all out now so we can move forward. If you have balls, show them and say what you really feel. I have. If you dont speak up now, Shut the $%ck up and hide in your hole. Nuff said from me.
Semper Fi! I look forward to seeing all of you in VA and racing clean.
Cliff Brown

I completely agree with you. I am young and really only have a handful of races under my belt. Now, I must speak my mind as you said. I absolutely respect the older drivers, I raced them clean. I watch my video and i do not see but one place I intentionally made a block.

The start, I made the mistake in waiting for the flag to wave instead of going at the apex of 12. I stayed in the middle and did not block into one and gave the two that passed me optimal room and I did not block at three. LaBounty got a great run on me through the esses, so I kept right and gave him the apex at 5 and the track out knowing quite well I would lose another position giving up so much time through 5. I was accused of dropping wheels in this race and you will only see it once 1:53, I got a run on #58 coming out of 10b and I didn't get much room once we got side by side under the bridge. Now at 3:35 yes, I did move over a little bit to tell the car behind I was watching him. At 5:25 the car in front had a terrible run through 5 baulking me bad so I moved left to not baulk/block LaBounty letting him pass me back cleanly. At 6:58 LaBounty I assume missed the 3rd to 4th shift losing a lot of speed so, I bumped him rather than attempting a pass on the right. At 7:20 I felt I was a small bit faster than LaBounty so, I made a pass at 6. I'm very sorry about the little step out the rear had. I had the inside line at this point, if I had a little more room on the left we could have been faster through 6 and 7. I was not racing for what ever position we were in at the time. I wanted to catch the pack ahead. I gave LaBounty what I thought was a Let's go wave. He must have been really upset with me at this point. Flipping me off, driving off the line, pushing me left, and bumping me at the fastest part of the track! (Notice I did absolutely nothing to block him going down the back straight) I had no where to go. I had no room to go left or right. Hitting the brakes going around 9 at 100+mph not knowing if Cliffs front bumper was clear was something I was not about to try. Again going into turn 10a I did not block anyone. I was given the punt at the turn in for 10b. If I had not kept the car from going around right there we could have had another very unsafe situation and possibly another race incident. I won't say any more on that because I don't feel it's an issue. At 10:19 I made my intentions know I was going to pass but I allowed #58 to the apex if he wanted to move over. At 11:30 where the back straight wreck happens. I see the dust and lift and go to the brake early knowing there may be a wreck ahead. I commit to going left only to have #58 come up on my left closing the door on me. So, I was left with two decisions thread the needle between him and LaBounty or possibly risk taking #58 out and putting him in the wall. The whole incident was unfortunate and I did my best to avoid it but it happened.

And apparently the right front tire had more grip than the two rear tires because I couldn't get the car to move forward (Right front tire was pushed up against the inner fender well) out of the racing line.
I was more than willing to discus this at the track face to face but the other party was not so willing to do this. I came over to talk to Cliff and LaBounty because I felt it was necessary. We are all out there to race for fun. It's not fun when you come home with a damaged car.


Nate Sparks 

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NASA Champs Winner - NASA Champs Winner We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#52
Rob Burgoon

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The start, I made the mistake in waiting for the flag to wave instead of going at the apex of 12.


In my experience, very few pole sitters are willing to do a legal start. Cheating on the start by the pole is something that is part of the SM culture unfortunately.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#53
JayF

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I wanted to respond as an outsider looking in. I am currently finishing up my 96 build as a new SM racer and seeing threads like this and the incidents that are going on sure dont make it look like a fun class to jump into some times. These are public forums that anyone can read. If someone googles spec miata the first thing that comes up is the old page which jumps hear. If I was thinking about starting to race in SM and came here and started reading what was going on, I would definitly think twice about what I wanted to get into. This kind of stuff is definitely not helping to expand the SM community and the sport.

I know I havent raced yet, and I'm submitting my novice paperwork this week but what happened to following rules? I know we are all here to have fun and everyone wants to win, but whats the benefit of breaking rules when it can result in people being seriously injured or leaving the track with a heavily damaged or totaled car? Where is the fun in that. The pro's in Grand-am seem to follow the rules for the most part why is it difficult to do so on the amateur level? I havent gone to race school yet and I'm aware of the driver allowed to make one move to protect their line. Weaving back and fourth to block? Not only is it dangerous but its childish. Race the guy and work your ass off to keep your position, if he gets around you then figure out what he's doing, try to capitalize on it and get him back.

I'm looking forward to jumping in and joining the ranks, but reading stuff like will make it a rather nerve wrecking day to say the least when I start. Lets just hope that not being in the top 5 and being back in the pack I can at least bring the car home in one piece on its first outting.
-- Jay --
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#54
Glenn

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Dave Colledge, I have known you since 2005.You are my Panoz friend. You are a great guy in my book but your car is WAY too fast for me. I have one of the top engines in the S.E. I have had my engine for over a year and it has been gone through like a whore in China by the SCCA/ NASA numerous times in tech including the run offs. When you can pass Drago, Sandlin, Labounty,Steyn and other top contenders down the straight at 7 something is wrong. I am not at all implying you yourself are a bad driver. I am saying that when we all have the same exit speed at turn 5 and 7 and you pass us by 3 car lengths????. Your engine is going to be gone through next time. I assure you. You need to talk to your builder.


Just a reminder, Daves moter WAS torn down at the ARRC and was found to to be compliant! Just a reminder for those with short memories.

Glenn Murphey, Crew Chief
Owner Crew Chief Services The Pinnacle of Excellence, Contract Crew Services for the racing community.
Soon to be back in the club racing scene for good ;)

 

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#55
Steve D

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Wow. Last week I was pondering whether I would sign up for the May national at Road Atlanta.

I've concluded I don't have the mindset, rebuild budget OR talent to play that game.

I don't know Nate, but watching his video it sure looked like he drove a clean race (I couldn't watch any more after he got pushed into Cliff) especially given how many positions he dropped on that first lap. He seemed to show a TON of maturity for not getting the red mist immediately.

Admittedly, I wasn't there and you can only tell so much from the video, but still...

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#56
Weekend Warrior

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Wow. Last week I was pondering whether I would sign up for the May national at Road Atlanta.

I've concluded I don't have the mindset, rebuild budget OR talent to play that game.

I don't know Nate, but watching his video it sure looked like he drove a clean race (I couldn't watch any more after he got pushed into Cliff) especially given how many positions he dropped on that first lap. He seemed to show a TON of maturity for not getting the red mist immediately.

Admittedly, I wasn't there and you can only tell so much from the video, but still...

+1

I have raced with Nate and he raced me clean, side by side, through numerous turns. I will race with him again and again.
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#57
High Chair

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Just a reminder, Daves moter WAS torn down at the ARRC and was found to to be compliant! Just a reminder for those with short memories.


That is NOT correct! The only motor that was torn down at the ARRC was mine; it came back in a cooler. Dave's was whistled and they checked a couple other items but that is it. The head and other items were NOT removed. What they did check was compliant.
Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#58
High Chair

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...........VOYTEK....you are a disease that needs to be STOPPED before it spreads to the best class SCCA or NASA has.
[/quote]

What VOYTEK blocking people again!!!!! Let me show you my shocked face


Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#59
Mr.Pink

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That is NOT correct! The only motor that was torn down at the ARRC was mine; it came back in a cooler. Dave's was whistled and they checked a couple other items but that is it. The head and other items were NOT removed. What they did check was compliant.


When Dave and I were checked after the ARRC they checked:
compression(whistler)
intake manifold
exhaust manifold
flywheel(through starter hole)
crank sensor
airbox
and rear end gears(?)

Our cylinder heads were not removed.

#60
High Chair

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When Dave and I were checked after the ARRC they checked:
compression(whistler)
intake manifold
exhaust manifold
flywheel(through starter hole)
crank sensor
airbox
and rear end gears(?)

Our cylinder heads were not removed.

And all of those items were indeed found to be compliant!
Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! ARRC Champion - Won the ARRC Race in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver




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