105 replies to this topic

[MPR22]

Stop changing the subject and answer the question.

What's the question I am suppose to be answering? I answered your original question, did you pose another one while I wasn't looking. You clearly feel Jim hurt the class. You have an opinion, I have a different one. People who read an advertisement that is posted on a message board and decide to not join a class are not going to stay in racing past year one or two anyway. And they certainly won't stay in SM. I have found most people who get into SM do a fair bit of research before jumping in. I'm guessing you were one of those that did your due diligence. And low and behold you are still here.

[Danica Davison]

Rob I disagree. I think what is helping the class is the closer than ever racing, cars getting torn down, and ALL of them passing. Shows you that SM has taken a good turn since 2014 and the entries show it. What hurts the class is when all of those good things are happening, and you have people That have influence saying there is still cheating, even though cars are coming home in boxes.

Homestead: Alex Bolaños has 5000 laps at homestead and wins both races. Must be cheating
Sebring: Alex and Jim have on good tires, worked well together, have good cars as always, and win. Must be cheating.
COTA: haldeman puts 6 hours in an endurance race there before the weekend. Jim tests there a month before. Having exponentially more laps than anyone else. Must be cheating.
VIR: Alex and Kicera, two wheelmen, get hooked up and work together the whole weekend, pushing away to a two man race. Must be cheating.

Should I keep going?

[Nick Soriano]

Rob, 

 

When I was getting into the sport, in 2013, I only had info from the outside looking in and I thought the same thing you did. I was pretty turned off by all the rumors and it made it tough for me to figure out how seriously I wanted to get into racing. At the end of the day, all the mess that has occurred has made this class tighter than ever. 

Like everyone else has said, the class has evolved and grown from the incidents of the past. The true problem is what comes from a select few on the inside. It's those rumors that spread and those who are looking to join or are just getting involved will get the wrong idea. Just like what happened to me a few years ago.

 

So yes, it was worth the damage. If there was any real damage anyways. 

[ChrisA]

I'm just curious if any shmoes tried to buy any of this and so contributed to Jim's tire budget?

[Ron Alan]

Why would anyone get into a pissing match about whether or not joking about cheating is detrimental to the class? 

 

In the end it's history and human nature that should guide us to believe that cheating goes on and will always go on...joking about it changes nothing...good or bad for the class.

 

SM has proven like any other human competition there is always an effort to push the limits of the rules...and why would we be any different? All we can be is vigilant...trust but verify! 2014 was a black eye and should never be forgotten. 

 

And for what it is worth...I bet SM as a class has the most LEGAL cars as a percentage over ANY other amateur racing class!

[MotoFusi]

I got your special sauce right here! Forgeddaboutit.

[tLinder]

http://mazdaracers.c...der-head-glaze/

Short and simple, IT IS THE DRIVER that makes the biggest difference.

 

(Based on the fact that I have been fortunate to swap cars with Haldeman during a test day on several occasions.  I'm slower than him in his car and he is faster than me in my car.  Same day, same tires, same track, etc., etc., etc.,)

[Johnny D]

Chris did same lap times in both cars ??

 

J~

[steveracer]

Short and simple, IT IS THE DRIVER that makes the biggest difference.

 

(Based on the fact that I have been fortunate to swap cars with Haldeman during a test day on several occasions.  I'm slower than him in his car and he is faster than me in my car.  Same day, same tires, same track, etc., etc., etc.,)

 

Yes, I had the same experience letting Chris drive my car at NOLA. In fact, he said my car handled better than his.

 

Color me slow...

[tLinder]

Chris did same lap times in both cars ??

 

J~

In some cases yes.  He's swapped cars with others, and in some cases went faster in their car than he did in his.

 

I'm not naive to think there is zero cheating, I just want future readers (newbies) to know the driver is biggest part of the equation.  (Even if $600 head glaze existed, it's probably not the missing part of why someone is not at the pointy end).

[Rob Burgoon]

What's the question I am suppose to be answering? I answered your original question, did you pose another one while I wasn't looking. You clearly feel Jim hurt the class. You have an opinion, I have a different one. People who read an advertisement that is posted on a message board and decide to not join a class are not going to stay in racing past year one or two anyway. And they certainly won't stay in SM. I have found most people who get into SM do a fair bit of research before jumping in. I'm guessing you were one of those that did your due diligence. And low and behold you are still here.

 

"So when people considering what class to join hear about it, do you think they will ever see the comments about it? Or will they just see a copied and pasted ad? Do you expect most people considering what class to join to know anything about building engines?"

 

This class has a PR problem.  Maybe the cheating problem isn't so bad these days, but it DOES have a PR problem.  That story about mazda getting pissed off at all the cheating, that story isn't going anywhere.

 

Spec Miata is currently the least bad option out of a very short list of alternatives that have arguably worse compromises.  It's foolish to assume it will stay that way if folks don't take the PR problem seriously.

[Rob Burgoon]

And try not to call my driving ability into question, it's not like if I was faster or slower that would somehow change the validity of my argument.

[lillyweld]

                

[wheel]

SM is probably the most heavily Tech'd class in the history of Club Racing (maybe SS was tighter back in the day, but I doubt it).  There have been more engines torn down in SM than in all the other classes combined.  The fact that the compliance has been almost perfect is something that should be talked about on this and other forums.

[Sean - MiataCage]

Did some damage to the class, but worth it, right?

 

Since when do you care about damage to the class?

[Danica Davison]

SM is probably the most heavily Tech'd class in the history of Club Racing (maybe SS was tighter back in the day, but I doubt it).  There have been more engines torn down in SM than in all the other classes combined.  The fact that the compliance has been almost perfect is something that should be talked about on this and other forums.

 

Exactly. The level of scrutiny for SM is so much higher than any other class.  At Daytona, when were tearing our cars apart, T3 came in to tech and they put a camber gauge on all four wheels...and that was it.  If other classes were teched as heavily as ours, I am sure you would find a lot of non-compliance

[wheel]

There used to be a problem with AS at the Runoffs, until they bounced several cars.  Last couple of Runoffs all cars were compliant.  Some were torn down to weigh the flywheel, in addition to lots of stuff on the engines.  Top couple of cars left in boxes.  The SM community demanded more tech and voted to pay extra for it.  I think drivers in the class can be pretty confident that if they get beat it isn't because of a cheater car.

[FTodaro]

I think the class is in a pretty good place regarding compliance. We just have to strike a balance there. We have had little to no compliance issues, and i think competitors have their mind right to quote a line from "cool hand Luke" We just have to make sure we don't go to crazy, i have heard some grumbling about the the tear downs beyond the podium.

 

IMO the only issue we have to contend with as a class is getting contact and car damage issues managed and it will be spot on.

[BNaumann]

i have heard some grumbling about the the tear downs beyond the podium.

Yeah, this guy. If they want my head off or my trans out for a finish outside the top ten, I'll probably take the suspension. Seriously. It took me days to do that stuff in my garage and I'm not bringing all those tools to the track. I cringed when I read the Gingerman majors supps.

[38bfast]

Compliance is the responsibility of the entire field not just the pointy end. The guy who placed DFL deserves to know he raced compliant cars. He has the same right as the guy who finished up front. compliance and verification is for all of SM.