176 replies to this topic

[FTodaro]

Well your a winner in my book!  Just beating Spencer Rutherford who would have won every race he ever entered is proof enough for me and probably the world

Give Spencer a few years and when he tells the stories of "back in the day"  he will have won every race he ever ran.

[FTodaro]

I'm not even 60 or 70 or whatever you really are and I don't have the damn time to wait either lol...

Might never happen seems he is giving up on the dream and going back to regional only racing

Hay what is wrong with 60,

[Danica Davison]

No comment, she must have a late afternoon date. 

Haha I was getting drunk at the Chateau bar in Sebring like every good racer. Well, except Danny. He drinks one glass of red wine because he is watching his carb intake. If Jim Drago were here, he would have been asleep for 3 hours, and he would woken up to me running faster than him hungover so he has to put the car on the scales IMMEDIATELY for 2 hours because he is slower than me. He doesn’t want to admit it, but when Danica walks the walk, Jim freaks out.

Oh Danny boy. I know the guy who had your shoes signed and put in his trophy cabinet right next to all the real trophies he has won in the MX5 cup.. didn’t you try that once and finish 15th? Anyway, I like how the “smack” talkin Danny is back from tech shed errrr I mean retirement! It makes it more fun. I look forward to going head to head again, because last time we did, you had a very tough time keeping up with me in the infield of Daytona

May be a little quiet this weekend on here as I’ll be raising hell ans praising Dale this weekend at Sebring. I’ll come back on after a few drinks.

#Back2BackPeoplesChamp

[DrDomm]

Sorry to bring up a serious question for Danny and all the others at the front.  I watched Danny's video and everyone is pounding those high inner curbs/speedbumps.  It seems so violent.  I'd prolly be afraid to damage the car, but clearly it was the quick way around.  Were there any known failures or extra maintenance because of them?

[chris haldeman]

Domm, at cota there is 2 styles of red fia curbs. This weekend we had the low moto gp curbs. The low curbs can be run over without fear. The high curbs used in f1 ect if you hit them you will not make the next turn with all 4 wheels stil on the car

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Chris it will be interesting as to what nasa intends to run for the champs I would hope it's the gp curbing, but could see them racing the may race with go curbs then having the track install the f1 curbs for the champs race.

[DrDomm]

Domm, at cota there is 2 styles of red fia curbs. This weekend we had the low moto gp curbs. The low curbs can be run over without fear. The high curbs used in f1 ect if you hit them you will not make the next turn with all 4 wheels stil on the car

 

Gotcha...yeah, I didn't realize the F1 inside curbs could be swapped out.

[Jim Drago]

Chris it will be interesting as to what nasa intends to run for the champs I would hope it's the gp curbing, but could see them racing the may race with go curbs then having the track install the f1 curbs for the champs race.

The lower GP track makes the course MUCH easier, i hope they go with the F1 curbs as the track is too easy to drive with the low curbs. Regardless of what they determine track limits to be.  If we run the higher curbs, track limits will no longer be an issue and there will be a big penalty to pay if you try to go over them.  IMO the difficulty level goes from 9 on a 1-10 with F1 curbs to a 5 with the low curbs. Championship races should be on the hardest configuration. IMO the issue is that the higher curbs will add cautions and slow the schedule down and as there will be more instances to clean up between sessions. As a race organizer, I can see why they may opt for the lower curbs.

[MPR22]

The lower GP track makes the course MUCH easier, i hope they go with the F1 curbs as the track is too easy to drive with the low curbs. Regardless of what they determine track limits to be.  If we run the higher curbs, track limits will no longer be an issue and there will be a big penalty to pay if you try to go over them.  IMO the difficulty level goes from 9 on a 1-10 with F1 curbs to a 5 with the low curbs. Championship races should be on the hardest configuration. IMO the issue is that the higher curbs will add cautions and slow the schedule down and as there will be more instances to clean up between sessions. As a race organizer, I can see why they may opt for the lower curbs.

NASA Texas ran the high curbs last May, it didn't cause any problems past test day.  There were some serious OH $$$HIT moments on test day session one but after that everyone figured out to stay off. 

[Craig Berry]

NASA Texas ran the high curbs last May, it didn't cause any problems past test day.  There were some serious OH $$$HIT moments on test day session one but after that everyone figured out to stay off.

I agree. We did a DE back in 13 with the large curbs... It only took one time of sliding across the curb at turn 19 with all 4 tires off the track to figure it out. I kinda hope they use the big curbs, I think the difficulty separates the drivers, and that is what a championship race is all about.

[Cnj]

The lower GP track makes the course MUCH easier, i hope they go with the F1 curbs as the track is too easy to drive with the low curbs. Regardless of what they determine track limits to be.  If we run the higher curbs, track limits will no longer be an issue and there will be a big penalty to pay if you try to go over them.  IMO the difficulty level goes from 9 on a 1-10 with F1 curbs to a 5 with the low curbs. Championship races should be on the hardest configuration. IMO the issue is that the higher curbs will add cautions and slow the schedule down and as there will be more instances to clean up between sessions. As a race organizer, I can see why they may opt for the lower curbs.

Jim, I must be missing something. You argued passionately and very forcefully at the COTA drivers meeting to ensure that the the track limits would allow us all to drive over (and inside) the curbs. Now you are (apparently) arguing the opposite.

For the record, I agree that it’s harder, and better, for us to not be hopping the orange curbs. It made perfect sense to me for the track limits to be set so that 2 wheels were always on the black stuff (ie. On or inside of the first white line). What was won during that meeting did not, in my opinion, improve our racing.

CNJ

[Danny Steyn]

For the record, I agree that it’s harder, and better, for us to not be hopping the orange curbs. It made perfect sense to me for the track limits to be set so that 2 wheels were always on the black stuff (ie. On or inside of the first white line). What was won during that meeting did not, in my opinion, improve our racing.

CNJ

 

Craig - I agree with you. Staying off the curbs and on the track would have demanded way more precision and especially patience, but the reality of it all is that if there is nothing to hit or slow you down, a lot of drivers would surely have exceeded the original as-stated track limits. Then you are at the mercy of the corner marshals, or race control watching all the TV monitors and catching all infringements.

 

Because there is one thing that will really piss a driver off, is being called in for a black flag, after the session, and being told you are losing your position (or DQ'd) and not doing the same to other drivers that were incurring the same infringements. That happened to both Nick Leverone and I in STL qualifying, so we dialed it back for the SM qualifying, and guess what, it put us back in 10th and 14th. 

 

In the first SM qualifying run, before our drivers meeting, there were 76 transgressions, and not one driver was penalized.Now if they had spoken to all the transgressors, and stripped them of their qually times, then yes, I would have been happy. But they didn't. So it was pretty obvious to all:- comply with the rules, and finish way back, or exceed the limits and try your luck. The entire SM field went for the latter in the qually and then asked for the extension of track limits

 

So IMO the call by Drago and others, to have the track limits extended, essentially allowed us to race without having to settle the outcome in the stewards office, with each penalized driver bringing his video to pint out the drivers ahead or behind that had equally transgressed the limits, but yet somehow had escaped any penalties.

 

At Watkins Glen, there is this paved section outside of turn 1, and once again every driver gets tempted to use it. In SCCA you get two mulligans, then you get black flagged, and it ha always been a contentious issue, but at the 16 NASA Champs they said to us, go ahead and use it, and we were like "WHAT?", and guess what it worked and we all had a great race with no fear that our 4 wheels slightly over the line was going to get us moved back at the end of the race. 

 

This time I am on Jim's side of the argument and of course this is just one mans opinion

 in the SM qualifying run, before our drivers meeting, there were 76 transgressions, and not one driver was penalized.

[Jim Drago]

Jim, I must be missing something. You argued passionately and very forcefully at the COTA drivers meeting to ensure that the the track limits would allow us all to drive over (and inside) the curbs. Now you are (apparently) arguing the opposite.

For the record, I agree that it’s harder, and better, for us to not be hopping the orange curbs. It made perfect sense to me for the track limits to be set so that 2 wheels were always on the black stuff (ie. On or inside of the first white line). What was won during that meeting did not, in my opinion, improve our racing.

CNJ

Craig

I wasn't really arguing about the curbs or even track limits so much as much as I just wanted consistency. I also wanted whatever definition they put in place to be enforced. The small curbs were already there and were not changing for that weekend.  My concern was that I did not want to be put in a position of staying within the rules and defined track limits when I knew (because of the existing layout and if possible, drivers will do it) other drivers would not. I am ALWAYS on the wrong side of those situations.. If I stayed within the rules, others would not and would not have been penalized.. If I joined in and started exceeding track limits with the ones exceeding limits, I would be penalized or we all would. To some extent, that is saw exactly what I saw, several racing around me in both races exceeded the track limits to where I thought for 100% certainty they would be called in, none were.  Then there were the unfortunate ones like Matt above that were caught out. I realize they can't call them all in. I knew that this would make for a mess and very inconsistent enforcement of a rule and imo, it was exactly that.   Had we had last years rule,  it would have been more fair to all as the gains for going 4 passed the second white line are minor compared to hanging just two over.   Now I am offering an opinion of what I feel is best for the upcoming races, I believe the higher curbs will take a lot of this out of play. It may not and in that case I may be wrong for the first time   Most importantly, regardless of the curbs.. IMO the track limits need to be established and enforced or they need to lets us go completely, NOTHING IN BETWEEN. I am fine with either, just pick one and stick with it.  Perhaps establish limits and you get one, two mulligans for the entire race, you pick? After that, you are penalized. Not ifs,ands or buts. I just want the rules clear and enforced the same for wall, whatever they may be.    

[Jim Drago]

In the first SM qualifying run, before our drivers meeting, there were 76 transgressions, and not one driver was penalized.Now if they had spoken to all the transgressors, and stripped them of their qually times, then yes, I would have been happy. But they didn't. So it was pretty obvious to all:- comply with the rules, and finish way back, or exceed the limits and try your luck. The entire SM field went for the latter in the qually and then asked for the extension of track limits

This is one of the instances I was speaking about, I kept two wheels inside the first white line the entire session and it definitely penalized me.

[William Keeling]

The orange F1 curbing only solves part of the issues (Apexes).  Even those curbs do nothing for the liberties taken at track out of 1,9, 11 and 19.

[Jim Drago]

The orange F1 curbing only solves part of the issues (Apexes).  Even those curbs do nothing for the liberties taken at track out of 1,9, 11 and 19.

true, I didnt think 9 was much of an issue? But 20 is  

 

Perhaps, on those turns set whatever they want track limits to be.. Eiether apply the 1-2 mulligan rule, the zero tolerance rule or one wheel inside the outer white ( no real rule)  Pick one and stick to it and enforce it

[William Keeling]

true, I didnt think 9 was much of an issue? But 20 is

 

Perhaps, on those turns set whatever they want track limits to be.. Eiether apply the 1-2 mulligan rule, the zero tolerance rule or one wheel inside the outer white ( no real rule)  Pick one and stick to it and enforce it

I like police spike strips at limits

[MPR22]

This is one of the instances I was speaking about, I kept two wheels inside the first white line the entire session and it definitely penalized me.

I was told before the qualifying what the track limits were and it took me about 3 laps to fix my lines, once fixed still managed to put up the two fastest times of the session with all wheels on track.  The point about enforcement is spot on, especially in a racing environment.  

[William Keeling]

I was told before the qualifying what the track limits were and it took me about 3 laps to fix my lines, once fixed still managed to put up the two fastest times of the session with all wheels on track.  The point about enforcement is spot on, especially in a racing environment.  

but you are a national champ!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Holy shit what ddddddid I get started here with the curbs question??????  Thank god we are gonna solve all the problems here lol!!!!!!