267 replies to this topic

[Tom Hampton]

Ignore it at your peril.  There are about 50 AV companies in Silicon Valley, and even the big boys are getting in on the action.  Every major car maker (Toyota, GM, VW, PSA, others) has an R&D center in the Valley working on AV's.  You should see the number of cars with manufacturer plates.  Intel now owns Mobile Eye, which is a major player in AV.
 
AV's are simply safer than humans.  They don't need to be perfect to be ready for prime time.  So, if they reduce our annual deaths by 1/2, should we wait to deploy them till they get to 100% perfect?  Remember, the Uber driver failed to pay attention in a prototype that required the user to pay attention.
 
 
And the teamsters are vigorously opposing anything that might cost them membership dues.  So, they are all about safety.  https://teamster.org...hicle-collision
 
That's why when congress passed AV standards last year, they did not include trucks.https://psmag.com/ec...driverless-tech

 

Peril?  Er...exactly what peril? I have very little dog in the hunt other than driving my 1990 Miata to work every day.

 

Did you actually read the NTSB report?  The report states that (according to the driver), she was looking at the control panel status display, as per her instructions.  Its certainly possible she was lying (and really looking at one of her two cell phones).  I'm assuming that a preliminary check was made to determine if her cell phone was being used at or near the time of the incident before releasing the preliminary report.  The NTSB tends to be fairly careful about releasing unconfirmed statements---but that is an assumption on my part. 

 

Third, did you actually note that I was referring to autonomous DRONES (and only tangentially refer to AVs)? 

 

As noted above, I deal with Civil Certification of Aircraft every day.  Both on the airframe side and on the avionics side of that equation.  I am quite aware of what it takes to even get a 2D autopilot approved for use in civil airspace, under very limited conditions, WITHOUT the approval to actually LAND the aircraft. 

 

The design and construction of an AIR VEHICLE for MASS usage, which will NOT have a qualified pilot on board and is fully-autonomous for use in all weather conditions and is capable of managing all unusual circumstances....is a VERY LONG WAY AWAY. 

 

Finally....There is more to public acceptance than statistical safety.  A few highly publicized incidents, and egregious corporate behavior (as reported in the NTSB report on the Uber incident) will nullify the publics willingness to accept these AV...statistics be damned.  I'm not arguing that they might not already be statistically safer.  But, if you start running people over (or a school bus of kids' deaths is attributed to an AV) because of AV software errors (allegedly due to a rush to market)...and the public (and thus politicians wanting to garner votes) will turn on you in a heartbeat---that may only delay the "inevitable", but it WILL delay it. 

 

[Tom Hampton]

Frankly....I'd be perfectly happy to have a fully autonomous AV drive me to work every day.  I'd love to use that 45 minutes each way for something more enjoyable, than just holding the wheel straight and accelerating to 90 mph as I cross the Hunt county line. 

 

Maybe I could fit my treadmill, a bike trainer, or an endless pool in the back...get my workouts in!

[Bench Racer]

You can believe all you like   Many others "believed" after winning in other classes that "they would blend in at the pointy end of Spec Miata rather quickly" and didn't

Only one way to tell, put him your rocket and send him to the Sprints.. If he podiums, I'll pay your entry

Jim, let's get one thing straight, I never suggested my 1.6 was/is a rocket ship. I leave that crap for others like yourself.

[Tom Hampton]

Jim, let's get one thing straight, I never suggested my 1.6 was/is a rocket ship. I leave that crap for others like yourself.

 

 

No.  MPR22 called it a fire-breathing dragon. 

 

[Jim Drago]

Jim, let's get one thing straight, I never suggested my 1.6 was/is a rocket ship. I leave that crap for others like yourself.

If you are going to put your man crush in Sm? Can I put in Fernado Alonso? Although Loshak would likely beat him

[Tom Hampton]

This forum has been lame lately. What can we fight about other than stupid bump stops and shocks? Because I am bored and didn't take my ADHD meds today.
 
Has Drago won this year yet? Will his drought last longer than Danny Steyn's?
 
Is Cefalo's 1.8 really that good? Or is Hille just a one track hero and can only win in Ohio?
 
Is Kyle Webb ever going to race again or did he not mow enough lawns in 2017?
 
When are we going to kick the NA's to the curb?
 
Who would win in a cage fight:  Danny Steyn or Andrew Von Charbs?
 
Who else is happy that Dan Goof hasn't found mazdaracers yet?
 
What else?
 
Anddddddddd go.

Btw....BEST THREAD EVER.

[Tom Hampton]

If you are going to put your man crush in Sm? Can I put in Fernado Alonso? Although Loshak would likely beat him

Duh! F1 sucks balls.

[Jim Drago]

Duh! F1 sucks balls.

Kevin Harvick?

[Tom Hampton]

Kevin Harvick?

 

I think NASCAR sucks balls these days, too.  I've barely watched a race in two years.   I never really liked the "playoff" format in any of its incarnations, and I think the Car of Tomorrow really screwed the series up---it seemed to really change up what it took to be good, and closed the gap between best/worst.  I totally don't understand this segment racing crap.  What happened to green flag racing from race1-lap1 to the end of the season? 

 

Of course, I don't like free agency or any other parity leveling things...except in SM where I might benefit from it. 

[MPR22]

Odd to read someone slamming the very infrastructure which has been absolutely key to development and success in this country. And I’m not talking about getting your big screen TVs from port to Best Buy. Perhaps most critically railroads and highways have enabled the distribution of food from farms to grocers providing fresh dairy and produce year-round to absolutely every corner of the country. Mind you I’m pleased to see the grow-local buy-local trend catching on in more places but there is no way that will ever fully supply even a fraction of demand in areas of high population density in-season let alone out of season. Sure, efforts to develop soil-free and vertical farming etc are showing promise, but they still require a lot of space (by urban or suburban standards) and are quite expensive. Like alternative energy they have their place but aren’t even close to making a meaningful contribution.

But back to TVs and pretty much everything else you’ve ever owned, how exactly are they to be transported if not on our highways and existing rail? With the possible exception of that last leg to home in your personal car, trains, massive trucks on our super-highways, and phenomenally well organized commercial delivery services are moving all that crap with amazing efficiency. If we weren’t in quite such a hurry we could even get by with a lot less air-cargo.

No I’m not saying “good enough”, but drones??? Explain to me exactly how that will work and exactly how it will save... anything?

BTW, I’m SO tired of various stretches of highway which seem to be in perpetual reconstruction. But they are necessary. Perhaps we can make them more durable but meanwhile I’ll just keep repeating “jobs, jobs, jobs” as I wait in traffic.

My livelihood is 100% dependent on the continuation of the highway systems so I am not trashing it from an economic engine standpoint.  I am fully aware of its origins and its ongoing benefits. 

 

As for the transportation of my flat screen TVs', I don't envision trucks and trains going away.  I envision the commuter autos taking different routes to keep the two from mixing.  

 

As for drone technology being completely autonomous, why does that have to take 40 years, as Tom Hampton might suggest, assuming he lives to a ripe old age.  We were able to go from a flightless society to landing humans on the moon in about 65 years. 

[Danica Davison]

Naw, envious of his driving talent, yep could be. The interesting thing is, there's a guy from Breathless racing in FL who did Spec Miata and now has moved on to Trans Am. He, Loshak and some other seriously talented drivers have at it each Trans Am race weekend. I believe Loshak would blend in at the pointy end of Spec Miata rather quickly, contrary to one of our site contemporaries.

 

LOL @ the bolded line here. That car the kid used couldn't even pass a chumpcar tech ...

[Danica Davison]

Btw....BEST THREAD EVER.

 

 

I just think its funny how there is like 4 different debates going on at the same time! It is great!

[Steve Scheifler]

My livelihood is 100% dependent on the continuation of the highway systems so I am not trashing it from an economic engine standpoint. I am fully aware of its origins and its ongoing benefits.

As for the transportation of my flat screen TVs', I don't envision trucks and trains going away. I envision the commuter autos taking different routes to keep the two from mixing.

As for drone technology being completely autonomous, why does that have to take 40 years, as Tom Hampton might suggest, assuming he lives to a ripe old age. We were able to go from a flightless society to landing humans on the moon in about 65 years.

It certainly seemed like an unqualified trashing. Perhaps you need to be more specific/clear in your rants even at the risk of being called long winded.

As for drones, I still don’t see a place for them beyond a niche for final-leg delivery of small goods, which won’t move any needles. And even when they are used I question whether there is any net ecological benefit at all. Which would make more sense for the USPS, planned daily routes delivering your mail, or a fleet of drones flying off to individual homes as each envelope or package arrives at the local post office? If we wanted to do things right we would order EVERYTHING from home and hire no more than a few carriers to compete for the opportunity to deliver everything including the mail. Daily, by truck. Amazon and others trying to impress us wirh the convenience of immediate delivery of small items by drones is anything but a positive step, except that it will lead to technological innovation which might be better applied down the road (so to speak).

[Tom Hampton]

As for drone technology being completely autonomous, why does that have to take 40 years, as Tom Hampton might suggest, assuming he lives to a ripe old age.  We were able to go from a flightless society to landing humans on the moon in about 65 years.

 
Well....I turn 50 this year.  So, I might not really have 40 years.    If the last few years are any indication...Between running into immovable objects with the racecar, and random power tool accidents....I probably won't die of old age, anyway.
 
Because we have become a frighteningly litigious, and risk averse society today.  Our ability to accept that "sometimes the shit hits the fan...and, well, people die." is all but extinct. 

 

Sometimes, I don't think we will EVER reach so far beyond our current capacity as we did during those middle decades of the 20th century.  We are no longer bold.  I don't think Kelly Johnson would enjoy today's "engineering" very much. 

[Tom Hampton]

It certainly seemed like an unqualified trashing. Perhaps you need to be more specific/clear in your rants even at the risk of being called long winded.

He's already been called long winded. he's got that chatterbox thingy.

[MPR22]

It certainly seemed like an unqualified trashing. Perhaps you need to be more specific/clear in your rants even at the risk of being called long winded.

As for drones, I still don’t see a place for them beyond a niche for final-leg delivery of small goods, which won’t move any needles. And even when they are used I question whether there is any net ecological benefit at all. Which would make more sense for the USPS, planned daily routes delivering your mail, or a fleet of drones flying off to individual homes as each envelope or package arrives at the local post office? If we wanted to do things right we would order EVERYTHING from home and hire no more than a few carriers to compete for the opportunity to deliver everything including the mail. Daily, by truck. Amazon and others trying to impress us wirh the convenience of immediate delivery of small items by drones is anything but a positive step, except that it will lead to technological innovation which might be better applied down the road (so to speak).

Rant?  

 

Were am I ranting? 

Were did i point to ecological benefit as my goal? 

Why do you want to keep us grounded?  

I am trying to solve traffic congestion and reduce the dependence on infrastructure to move us "humans" around.   

With the removal of traffic congestion there may be a side benefit of reducing pollution with the removal of millions of cars idling while stuck in traffic.  

[MPR22]

It certainly seemed like an unqualified trashing. Perhaps you need to be more specific/clear in your rants even at the risk of being called long winded.

As for drones, I still don’t see a place for them beyond a niche for final-leg delivery of small goods, which won’t move any needles. And even when they are used I question whether there is any net ecological benefit at all. Which would make more sense for the USPS, planned daily routes delivering your mail, or a fleet of drones flying off to individual homes as each envelope or package arrives at the local post office? If we wanted to do things right we would order EVERYTHING from home and hire no more than a few carriers to compete for the opportunity to deliver everything including the mail. Daily, by truck. Amazon and others trying to impress us wirh the convenience of immediate delivery of small items by drones is anything but a positive step, except that it will lead to technological innovation which might be better applied down the road (so to speak).

 

 
Well....I turn 50 this year.  So, I might not really have 40 years.    If the last few years are any indication...Between running into immovable objects with the racecar, and random power tool accidents....I probably won't die of old age, anyway.
 
Because we have become a frighteningly litigious, and risk averse society today.  Our ability to accept that "sometimes the shit hits the fan...and, well, people die." is all but extinct. 

 

Sometimes, I don't think we will EVER reach so far beyond our current capacity as we did during those middle decades of the 20th century.  We are no longer bold.  I don't think Kelly Johnson would enjoy today's "engineering" very much. 

 

Be positive, think pendulum.  One day things will be so bad the litigators will be put on the sideline so we can innovate again. 

[Tom Hampton]

Be positive, think pendulum.  One day things will be so bad the litigators will be put on the sideline so we can innovate again.

 

That's one hell of a long pendulum.  I refer back to my recent streak of injuries...I don't have that long.   

[BNaumann]

Hey when does Wednesday night iRacing start again.

[Tom Hampton]

Hey when does Wednesday night iRacing start again.

Crap...now I'm going to have to reimage my desktop hard drive!