135 replies to this topic

[OrangeCrush86]

Didn't someone on here have a trick/device that lets you grease the hubs without complete disassembly?

[Brandon]

9 balls, have you really seen that? I have not and I’ve tried numerous hubs, but if they can... You mention the early ones having 12. Actually, that’s when things seemed to start going to shit. The early NA hubs had 13 balls and were pretty tough. I’ve yet to find an aftermarket one with more than 12 or less than 11. It isn’t necessarily an indication of quality but there does seem to be a correlation.

I believe the difference between the Advanced hubs and what you can buy online is grease and labor, but as already mentioned it is common with aftermarket in general to order multiple of the same brand and receive parts that are clearly different than each other, so a few closeup pics of established “good” ones would be helpful.

 

I've only heard about the 9-ball variants, never seen them in person myself as everything I've disassembled has been Mazda (whether OEM or street) with 11.

This pair from AA were the first I've seen or heard of having 12 and the unique inner cage.

 

Yes, the grease & labor is something that might be worth paying for if you value your time more than I do.

 

As those hubs are still disassembled I'll see about getting pictures of the inner bits to post but will have to be done late tonight/tomorrow.

[Steve Scheifler]

Didn't someone on here have a trick/device that lets you grease the hubs without complete disassembly?

Speaking of which, when talking to what I believe to be experts on the subject, a common point they make is that you shouldn’t need to “pack” bearings and then add more to the cavity between them. The idea is to get enough lubricant in there to coat everything and use a grease that doesn’t get thin and sling off at operating temperature.

That certainly sounds right in a design textbook sort of way, but we don’t have full control of all elements. So a sticky gooey high temp grease that won’t melt and sling off seems a logical start. The DayLube certainly seems to meet those criteria.

[Ron Alan]

Didn't someone on here have a trick/device that lets you grease the hubs without complete disassembly?

WD40 and compressed air...then maybe a little brake cleaner at the end...new grease.

 

I'm no engineer...but the concept of 9 to 13 balls has me asking...does the whole hub end up with more or less material? 9 balls to go around the same diameter means larger diameter races?...conversely 13 balls means smaller diameter races? Very curious to know what other dimensions change with the different size balls?

[EMatoy]

I don’t recall seeing an “open” hub rule. Is the number and size of balls in hubs going to be the next tech disaster?

[Bench Racer]

Ron, my WAG is the balls are the same OEM diameter and the races are the same dimensional shape. Steve???

 

To throw more in:

My back up hubs, one hub has 10 balls with white cage and the other hub has 11 balls with black cage. Both hubs are well used/rusted. Bought them from a SM racer who I don't remember. Don't have a clue about bearings/balls on car.

[OrangeCrush86]

I don’t recall seeing an “open” hub rule. Is the number and size of balls in hubs going to be the next tech disaster?

 

Its in the CV axle section.

[Ron Alan]

Ron, my WAG is the balls are the same OEM diameter and the races are the same dimensional shape. Steve???

 

 

The spindle diameter is a fixed number. You cant go around with each ball touching the preceding and have the same size races with a different amount of balls. Again, I'm just curious what changes within the whole hub dimensions to account for a different number of balls...races, housing?

 

EDIT...now that I see Brandon's pictures below...the design of the cages can make up the difference I was seeing in my mind! Disregard my rambling!

 

EDIT 2...well, maybe after your measurements Bench I might be correct in both thoughts? Ball size and cage design may change things?

[Brandon]

Ron, my WAG is the balls are the same OEM diameter and the races are the same dimensional shape. Steve???

 

To throw more in:

My back up hubs, one hub has 10 balls with white cage and the other hub has 11 balls with black cage. Both hubs are well used/rusted. Bought them from a SM racer who I don't remember. Don't have a clue about bearings/balls on car.

 

Pictures of the Adanced/Raybestos hub balls and cages attached.

Attached Files

•  20190321_061358-640.jpg   107.33KB   8 downloads
•  20190321_061338-640.jpg   140.88KB   8 downloads

[Bench Racer]

 I'm just curious what changes within the whole hub dimensions to account for a different number of balls...races, housing?

 

Ron, my post with the WAG, meaning Wild Ass Guess is so totally Wrong. Let's change WAG, meaning Wrong Ass Guess. The 10 balls are approx. .030" large than the 11 balls. The 10 ball inner race inside diameter is larger and the race curvature is larger. Both the 10 & 11 ball cages are open cages as per Brandon's cage on the left hand picture left side of picture. Never ending learning.

[granracing]

Since we're talking hubs, might as well segway this into rotors.  Do you find that the brand matters much?  Advanced recommends Brembo at $45 ea.  Rock Auto has Raybestos "street performance" for $23 ea (front).  

[Steve Scheifler]

It matters but tge ones mention plus Centric and Bosch have worked well for us. Mazda is seling the Centrics in both standard and heavy duty/premium (which I think they refer to as for endurance). Prices aren’t terrible if part of a large enough order to get free shipping, but I’ve still found Rock Auto to be cheaper to the door. Last time I got the premium Centrics for only very slightly more than the standard would have been from Mazda with tax. Tire Rack occasionally has specials on Brembo making them competitive but of course Amazon and the great WWW in general are always worth a quick check. With relatively little effort I always find a good deal somewhere.

If you have a 1.6, I see Centric Premium F/R on Amazon for $22.19/17.22 with free Prime shipping.

For the NB, Bosch Premium fronts for $31.82.

[Bench Racer]

Back with my Spec7 car I ordered Brembo through a family owned auto parts store. When they arrived something (don't remember what)wasn't as expected and after follow through with Brembo the rotors received were not manufactured by Brembo. Per Brembo they were a knockoff including the red and white boxes. The parts store followed through with Brembo and along came the Brembo rotors. 

[-P-]

Since we're talking hubs, might as well segway this into rotors.  Do you find that the brand matters much?  Advanced recommends Brembo at $45 ea.  Rock Auto has Raybestos "street performance" for $23 ea (front).  

 

I used to use cheap rotors and would replace every set or two of pads as I'd start to get warping. I've had Brembo's on since I built my car with 15 weekends on them without issue. Hawk blues as well...

[granracing]

That's a good point about them lasting longer therefore potentially being less expensive in the long run.

[OrangeCrush86]

I'm trying the advanced Brembos this year. Last year I warped some unknown brand and had to buy Napa Golds near the race track. The Napa units lasted about 6 weekends before some very minor heat cracks, no warping. They would probably last a few more weekends but I accidentally ran a side out of pad material.

[gerglmuff2]

i use rockauto centrics. 

i also replace them when i do pads, cause cheap insurance. never seen any cracking/warping, but as i said, i change them out cause they are so cheap, no sense trying to push there lifespan. 

[DrDomm]

WD40 and compressed air...then maybe a little brake cleaner at the end...new grease.

 

Yeah, I just use parts washer fluid...blow them out...repack.  Basically just use SKF hubs...I've given up on the voodoo.  I've got more important things to focus on.

[ChrisA]

I've given up on the voodoo. I've got more important things to focus on.

Heresy!!

[Bench Racer]

Heresy!!

Can anyone find the Jim Daniels free wheeling hub video from a bunch of years ago?

 

Did a quick search: