280 replies to this topic

[John Nesbitt]

In the end this thread is almost entirely moot ramblings because of this reason. The organization is incredibly fractured in it's current design. While it's easy enough to get changes done at the regional level, much above that won't happen. For every 1 person trying to make a move to unify and standardize the SCCA as a whole, there are 100 "club" people to say no. The current structure is much better at creating roadblocks than solutions.

 

Each one of us is a member of a single region out of 115. One region isn't going to change anything at the national level. Real changes can only come from the top down and we are all stuck waiting.

 

 

All of this is very true, except the statement that changes are easier at the Regional level.  If anything, change is more difficult at the Regional level.  Most Regions are run by a very small group of active members, who tend to be heavily invested in the current way of doing things.  And, given that there are ~115 Regions, it is surpassingly unlikely that systemic change will come from the Regional level.

 

The same is true of the national BoD - heavily invested in the current way of doing things.

 

As you point out, the best chance for lasting change comes from the National program and its ability to develop programs with Club-wide scope.

[OrangeCrush86]

This might sound minor, but it's been a source of frustration for me.  On the back of my daily truck, I put on one of SCCA's decals.  EVERYONE asks me if I race with Summit Racing.  Yeah, great for them and I sure hope SCCA is getting $$$$$ but if feels like we're promoting another business over our own club. 

 

Two weeks until my first scheduled race and I still have the dreaded $215 membership renewal sitting in front of me at my work desk. 

 

Well that Summit Racing sticker is because they sponsor club racing. However I do agree it's a bit hard to find the "plain" SCCA stickers. I suppose you can order them from the National office merchandise store.

[Steve Scheifler]

In our neck of the woods of Northern Conference...
125 cars at Blackhawk last weekend and only 88 registered so far for the GingerMan Majors(6 SM) on May 18-19. Talking to fast drivers in Northern Conference and even they are luke-warm about attending the Runoffs at VIR.

We can go on and on about what's wrong, but I need suggestions on how to fix SCCA road racing.

I'm heading to a meeting at the end of May to discuss this very topic with SCCA leaders from around the country.

Please provide input.

Thanks.

Jeff Luckritz
#76 SM

Well Jeff, the discussion here has gone pretty much as one might expect. Have you attended the meetings? Can you share what kinds of ideas came from the broader membership and anything that you found particularly interesting?

[OrangeCrush86]

All of this is very true, except the statement that changes are easier at the Regional level.  If anything, change is more difficult at the Regional level.  Most Regions are run by a very small group of active members, who tend to be heavily invested in the current way of doing things.  And, given that there are ~115 Regions, it is surpassingly unlikely that systemic change will come from the Regional level.

 

The same is true of the national BoD - heavily invested in the current way of doing things.

 

As you point out, the best chance for lasting change comes from the National program and its ability to develop programs with Club-wide scope.

 

I suppose this depends on the region and can't be generalized. My region (Land O'Lakes) has been very receptive to ideas and changes. They were welcoming when I started showing up at the meetings. One year after I joined the SCCA my wife got voted onto the board and I'm on the competition board. Now I'm the resident "young person" and they are respectful when I give input. Maybe this is a rarity considering the huge age gap at the organizational levels.

[Alberto]

How bout that... I didn't know the rank and file could attend regional board meetings...

[Tom Hampton]

How bout that... I didn't know the rank and file could attend regional board meetings...

Funny story.  THAT is exactly how I got started 10 years ago---I started attending the regional board meetings.  I didn't know they were "board meetings".  I just thought they were "club meetings". 

 

One mans story, maybe its telling, maybe not:

 

10 years ago I'd never heard of amateur road racing, ever.  Never heard of NASA, SCCA or anything else.  Just watched pro racing on TV like everyone else.  Like most of us I'd guess, I'd always wanted to drive a racecar.  So, my family bought me one of those NASCAR Winston Cup car drive around things at Texas Motor Speedway for my birthday---that's as close as I ever figured I'd get, though.  I drove 10 laps in a pre-COT NASCAR racecar.  My instructor was an SCCA racer, as evidenced by his SCCA patch on his suit.  We got to talking after the drive along, and he is the one who told me about this crazy world.  He said that SCCA would be racing at TMS in May of that year, and that I should come out---which I did. 

 

I walked into race-control asking "hey, what's going on?"  They weren't particularly helpful...just said to go walk around.  As I was getting ready to walk out, unsure if I wanted to bother people...CNJ had overheard part of my converstion, realized I was a noob looking for info, and offered to chat with me.  He spent about 30 minutes explaining a lot of stuff, and pointing me to the local HPDE groups.  He also suggested a couple of specific paddocks to go visit (other SM racers), and gave me the SM race schedule for the day. 

 

I visited a couple other SM racers as suggested, and stayed for the races that day.  Keith Verges was one of those guys.  He founded a local HPDE school at MSR-Cresson.  I rented his bumble-bee Turbo 1990 ITA car for my first track day.  Boy, that's the WRONG way to get into SM.  I still want THAT power back.  But, I digress....

 

My point?  I guess its that SCCA (and NASA, and the entire amateur road racing scene) has a visibility problem.  It was only by CHANCE word of mouth that I ever even found out about it---and it was NOT through any specific marketing.  You will attract zero percent of the people you don't reach. 

 

Once I got over the HPDE hump, Texas SCCA had ZERO path to getting a license.  They hadn't held a school or super-school in years, and had no budget to do so for the foreseeable future.  At a Texas SCCA board meeting, the licensing steward (or whatever his title was) told me to go to Skippy, as my only feasible option.  I didn't have $2500 cash for a Skippy school.  NASA had the HPDE/TT/W2W ladder...so, I went that route. I showed up to race weekends, I hung out with the XFactor guys (back then a smaller group than today!!), I did my HPDE thing, and then got my license and raced.  It was simple, inviting, and no more out of pocket costs than any other race weekend (damage not included). 

 

If it weren't for the debacle at NASA Nats I'd sill be racing with NASA.  I miss racing and hanging out with the Xfactor/GasHead folks.  But so far I can't bring myself to switch to SCCA, although I have submitted to get my SCCA comp license....I'll probably try a weekend and see how it goes.  None of the above descriptions of SCCA process makes me excited about it, though.    

 

Everything about the SCCA from the parlimentary-ish procedures, to all of the other stuff above just turns me off to it. 

[Tom Hampton]

For all the targetted ads that I see everywhere I go....I NEVER once recall seeing an add for NASA or SCCA or anything else related to car racing.  I get BBQ grill ads, Triathlon ads, and anything else that I ever type into a search engine, or link I might click on.  But, nothing, nada, zip, zilcho for car stuff.  Seems really odd....

[Bench Racer]

How bout that... I didn't know the rank and file could attend regional board meetings...

Let's see now, I became an SCCA member in 1997. Decided to build and race a Spec7 in 1999. Went to a Milwaukee competition meeting before started build with reference to tire and wheel weight which was on the agenda. Me knowing the tire weight (no one else did know the tire weight and there were 2 Spec7 owners there, 1 on the committee) and the weight of a good aluminum wheel suggested the minimum weight combination for tire and wheel. Their old school 2 cent response was something I don't remember. 1st and last SCCA meeting for me.

 

Tom, Keith Verges bumble-bee Turbo 1990 ITA car (SCCA???). Here all these years I thought Keith was a straight legal shooter, an ITA turbo car. 

[Tom Hampton]

Tom, Keith Verges bumble-bee Turbo 1990 ITA car (SCCA???). Here all these years I thought Keith was a straight legal shooter, an ITA turbo car.

I really have no idea if Keith ever raced that car.  He described it as his "development" car.  It DID have IT stickers on the side, but I could be wrong about the sub-class...it was probably ITE.  It was 10 years ago, and I couldn't quickly find a picture in my archives (although I do have some). 

 

It was a fun car to drive, he said it had 220 rwhp.  Keith also liked a loose setup, you really needed to manage front/rear balance with the throttle...so, it it was quite a challenge to learn on at my first EVER track day.  That said, as a result, I learned early on to use the gas pedal to transfer weight to the rear.  I looped that car in the first hot session of the day because I lifted mid-corner, on a downhill / offcamber corner...I did a full 360 in the front of a train.   No one hit me though, and I didn't flat-spot the tires.  I was terrified of the "you break it, you buy it" rule.

[callumhay]

I would echo the sentiment that SCCA has poor brand recognition. I got started in this late in life and kind of new about SCCA but had to go experience it to find out. Living in Tampa with CFR being my region I can only say everyone has been great, have met some great people and love the fact that we have Daytona and Sebring as our tracks..we are lucky for sure. 

 

To do road racing you need money , I think that's fairly obvious and desire. Typically to have the disposable income, if you are younger, say under 30 you are going to need to have a good paying job or some other income stream...(mom or dad or both helps). The older folks like myself typically will have more established incomes, many being business owners and more likely to accept some of the financial risks of doing this. This is not a good buisness model for SCCA as the pool of people is low coupled with the fact that the gasoline engine will assuredly die out at some point. In addition, there is not nearly the hype or stories around new car models as there was 20-40 years ago when say Dad bought a vette and there are some good memories we want to relive...at that time road racing was cooler, attainable and not subject to high costs as barriers to entry.  As many of us know, the young people of today generally do not look at driving...especially driving a manual transmission car as a fun thing to do. HOW SAD THAT IS!

 

I don't really have an opinion about the organizational structure as I am one of those folks who is happy to pay the entry fees and participate that way. For sure I appreciate the fact that many of the race staff are older than me and could or probably have better things to do with their time and if they did not show up and give their time then the whole thing would fall apart. I'm grateful for them and for the many have given their time especially in SM to make it the class that it is. 

 

SCCA clearly knows that road racing is going to be an issue in years to come..SOLO is popular and they are using Time Trials and Road Rally as means to lower the barrier to entry in terms of cost....and provide a fun experience.  IMO with road racing, an inexpensive (under 10k) self -assembly formula car that is electric driven could be something that the club could look at. Even at 20-25 K I think it would have customers.  I think the cost of lithium ion batteries precludes it being under 10 K, however there is nothing to say that those batteries could be presented in a way that they could be rented at the track and swapped out when the charge is down. Which incidentally is a way I think they will fix the distance issue with road cars in the future. Electric racing will have more draw: environmentally friendly, easier power plant to manage and no noise so it could be done closer to populated areas. The power may be low in a car like that to make say a larger tack like Sebring not a good option, but a shortened road course with  an auto cross component, maybe a skid pad or obstacle course could turn it more in to a spectator sport. who knows. 

 

Anyway, in the meantime at least in FL I think the "decline" is being managed as best it can be..there are still plenty of cars on track and I like the experience at the meetings. I have learned that racing less and spending more time with friends and family during the race weekends fits my needs. For sure I don't want the folks on here who have a more professional goal driven approach to think that change is not important. I  think at the best of the best-level for sure it seems like something needs to change.

 

Cal 

[pmiranda]

Once I got over the HPDE hump, Texas SCCA had ZERO path to getting a license.  They hadn't held a school or super-school in years, and had no budget to do so for the foreseeable future. 

 

Luckily thanks to people like KV, we do have an annual school at MSR-C, which is a beautiful thing. Sadly we don't run at TMS anymore (I had my best finish ever there) and ECR still doesn't seem to have gotten repaved and rebooted, but we do have Hallett and COTA if you can make those tows. 

Occasionally I hear mentions of SCCA or the runoffs in podcasts from pro racers. I think it's sad that the runoffs were announced to be at IMS in 2021 on the weekend of the 500, but there was nothing at the track to say so. We should have asked for a free ad spot during the 500 broadcast as part of the deal. That would have been fantastic.

[Alberto]

Sharing some perspective from a young racer and race photographer up in Portland.  

The video from the shared link was spectacularly exciting!  Makes me want to go drifting!

fbyoungracer by alberto_mg, on Flickr

[gerglmuff2]

Sharing some perspective from a young racer and race photographer up in Portland.  

The video from the shared link was spectacularly exciting!  Makes me want to go drifting!

fbyoungracer by alberto_mg, on Flickr

 

i went to gridlife last weekend. 

they have on site video editors. as in they film, and produce the videos in near realtime, collecting drone, track side, and pit interview videos into content live at the event. 

its pretty remarkable how we they understand there market. 

[luckymiata76]

All,

 

I've been monitoring all the input for the last few weeks and have been taking notes. Six of us met last week in Kansas City for about 5 hours. What I can tell you is that we spent most of our time figuring out the "why" of SCCA Regional Racing. We won't have a quick-fix, but everybody in the room seems to be on the same page. There are some good people in the room who are very passionate about SCCA racing. 

 

Keep the ideas coming. 

 

Thanks. 

 

Jeff

[Alberto]

Definitely not practical to do that sort of video stuff regularly but Runnoffs and other races could definitely benefit from better video work. 

 

Heck, even Chump / Champ or was it Lucky Dog has live video streaming from competitors cars.  

 

Plenty of demand for car related content as evidenced by Motor Trend's cable TV channel, Internet portal and other YouTube channels.  

[Tom Sager]

Definitely not practical to do that sort of video stuff regularly but Runnoffs and other races could definitely benefit from better video work. 

 

Heck, even Chump / Champ or was it Lucky Dog has live video streaming from competitors cars.  

 

Plenty of demand for car related content as evidenced by Motor Trend's cable TV channel, Internet portal and other YouTube channels.  

 

SCCA could without a huge effort do 8-10 videos a year from various events plus Runoffs and feature a few classes in each.  The Gridlife videos are well done. The competitiveness of some of the SCCA classes plus the variety of backgrounds and efforts among competitors would make for some interesting stories.  One could even be done from worker's perspective (corner and rescue?). 

[FTodaro]

SCCA's market is changing and if it does not adapt and change with it, it will end up like blockbuster video.

[LarryKing]

Timely article from the good folks at Hagerty. Nice to read interview of friend and longtime competitor Racer Phil.
https://www.hagerty....uggle-to-endure

[Steve Scheifler]

Timely article from the good folks at Hagerty. Nice to read interview of friend and longtime competitor Racer Phil.
https://www.hagerty....uggle-to-endure

OK, but not a whiff about ways to “fix” the W2W sprint race program, in fact more a resignation. And I hope that most of his facts are better than what he has on SM because he just dealt us another blow with egregious misinformation.

[LarryKing]

Perhaps a strongly worded letter to Hagerty's editor is in order.

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, not one word about GridLife.