82 replies to this topic

[granracing]

I'm more a fan of sector times during the same test day than just lap times especially during a HPDE. I think too many people are hung up on the lap time, although it happens to me too. lol

Roger, are your seminars specific to AIM or more general data acq related? (I have a RaceTechnology DL1 that I really need to get up to speed with.) Are you planning on conducting future online seminars as well?

[Bench Racer]

To gain a head start if you backtrack to page one, post four of this thread you'll find the the video Roger used used on this site several months ago. Also within a thread from a couple days ago Roger posted city locations for near future.

[Roger Caddell]

I'm more a fan of sector times during the same test day than just lap times especially during a HPDE. I think too many people are hung up on the lap time, although it happens to me too. lol

Roger, are your seminars specific to AIM or more general data acq related? (I have a RaceTechnology DL1 that I really need to get up to speed with.) Are you planning on conducting future online seminars as well?

Certainly the data presented is gathered and displayed with AiM Sports products and software but the concepts of reading and analyzing the data crosses over well to all data.

Yes, after I get the onsite seminars up and running well I will put together a schedule of weekly short webinars focusing on specific topics. These will always be posted to the AiM Sports Vimeo site.

[ProCoach]

Practical Data Acquisition

For Mazda HPDE drivers, racers and enthusiasts
Saturday, March 31st, 2012
9am to 4pm

Hosted by: Long Road Racing/BimmerWorld/Circuit Motorsports/Krause & Associates
1081 Ace Drive #2, Alton VA 24520 (on the campus of VIR)

Registration required:
http://driverdevelop...orsportsreg.com

Presented by: Roger Caddell - AiM Sports National Training Manager

•Coffee and Pastries at 8:30am
•Lunch Provided
•Data Seminar Starts at 9:00am
•Soft Drinks, Water and Tea Provided
•Bring your Computer and Data
•Detailed Data Analysis Available

Cost: $50.00 - FREE for AiM customers of Long Road Racing/BimmerWorld/Circuit Motorsports/Krause & Associates

Limited to 24 participants (have 7 already), reserve your space now!

The core principle of all AiM Sports data training is to reveal that data acquisition will allow the user to determine what the vehicle is doing, when it is doing it and why it is doing it while using AiM Sports hardware and software.

This AiM Sports data seminar has been designed to be very interactive with real examples of actual racing data. This seminar is not just a lecture, AiM Sports National Training Manager, Roger Caddell invites questions and comments from attendees and has found that group discussion of the examples helps everybody understand the information more fully.

AiM Sports Data Seminar Agenda
•What is Data Acquisition?
•Why Use Data Acquisition?
•How to Use Data Acquisition?
•Data Hardware and Installation (particular attention paid to Solo/Solo DL)
•Introduction and Use of the Race Studio 2 Software
•Detailed Data Analysis
•SmartyCam Video

AiM Sports is the world leader in motor sports and race data acquisition technology, electronics, instrumentation, data loggers, digital displays, lap timers, stopwatches and gauges for performance and race vehicles.

This is proof-positive that AiM Sports and the presenting sponsors are committed to making the most of your technology purchase! Learn how to use these great tools!

Roger Caddell, AiM Sports National Training Manager is a certified trainer with over 28 years of training experience and 36 years of motorsports experience as a driver, mechanic, engineer, and car owner.

[ProCoach]

What type of corners are good candidates for trail braking in an SM?

Slower ones, where your first priority is to get the car turned and pointed in the proper direction.

T9 at NJMP Thunderbolt

T1, T5, T6 at Summit Point Main

T1, T4, Oak Tree and T14A at VIR Full

T4 at Roebling

T7, T10A at Road Atlanta

T5, T9, T14 at Barber

T3, T7, T10 and T16 at Sebring Long

T4 (Keyhole), T8 (bottom of Madness), T14 (Carousel) at Mid-Ohio

T5, T8, T12 at Road America

T2, T8, T11 at Laguna Seca

And so on.

[ProCoach]

One more for today. Someone in another forum asked "when is the right time to hire a coach?"

My answer, and YMMV.

No one answer, I'm afraid. For most, it's an economic decision.

At what point do drivers believe that external evaluation, identification of areas for improvement, construction of very specific (and more broad) strategies to plan improvement and measurement of that improvement (if successful) justify the additional expense to what is already an expensive undertaking, at any level?

When done right, it's always been top-down. F1 drivers, CART/IRL, NASCAR, FIA GT and top level sports car drivers have been using trained, experienced and vetted coaches for decades.

Dr. Jacques Dallaire writing in 1983 "Scientific Principles of Training and Conditioning" which yielded a relationship working with Ayrton Senna, Sliderule Motorsports principal Mike Zimicki surrounding his clients (Danica Patrick and Graham Rahal, for example) in a "cocoon" of total approach encompassed in NinTai (perseverance), coach Rob Wilson vetting Bruno Senna for Frank Williams.

The studied, serious and outcomes-based approach practiced by a true, trained and experienced professional ALWAYS helps, for a driver at ANY level.

My experience has been to take the professional approaches most valid to the INDIVIDUAL client and apply them to the area identified as the greatest opportunity for improvement.

Whether working with a first-time track n00b to a former F1 World Champion, the approach should be the same with only the level of intensity and the number of "tools from the toolbox" used that varies.

Obviously, drivers only interested in track days take a different approach than even base-level club racing drivers. For them, the learning curve is SO steep, even unpracticed, untrained but more experienced instructors can help a great deal.

Most all amateur competition drivers (club level including SCCA and NASA up to Grand Am CTSCC) that are open to collaboration with a bona fide professional coach can improve their performance dramatically (some immediately and others over time) by retaining a coach. Much of the benefit is to CLARIFY the tremendous amount of information (and a great deal of MISinformation) and discard approaches that perpetuate mistakes and inhibit performance improvement. This is where data is so valuable.

I could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. You can derive as much benefit as you are open to from the best guys. From bootstrapping your "world view" to specifics about "which blade of grass to turn in at" (yes, I've been accused repeatedly of that one <grin>), the best coaches provide information and access to correct, outcomes-based methodologies and experience that will save tremendous amounts of time and money. Period.

Far better than getting into a car with an instructor in the passenger seat, one who stays mum during the session and gets out after saying "you're pretty good, not a lot I can help you with."

There is ALWAYS room for improvement...

[Brendan O]

Slower ones, where your first priority is to get the car turned and pointed in the proper direction.

T7, T10A at Road Atlanta

T5, T9, T14 at Barber

I am very familiar with these 5 and will try trail braking. I may leave Rd Atl 10A until last since i still have hard time getting turn in speed correct (60mph i think). I almost always overslow because I'm too focused on slowing from 115mph and I always relieve pressure when i downshift from 5th to 3rd (i skip 4th).

T14 at Barber seems ideal because it appears somewhat safe if i screw it up (run off room etc). Also, I think i am still turning right a bit when i hit the brakes at around 85mph and so the car should rotate a bit if i have enough lateral Gs.

thanks
Brendan

[Brendan O]

I could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. You can derive as much benefit as you are open to from the best guys. From bootstrapping your "world view" to specifics about "which blade of grass to turn in at" (yes, I've been accused repeatedly of that one <grin>), the best coaches provide information and access to correct, outcomes-based methodologies and experience that will save tremendous amounts of time and money. Period.

Saving time and money sounds good - guess I'll get a coach.

[Gatoratty]

I had Andrew Von Charboneau use my car in a race at Sebring with the Traqmate recording the data. Doesn't get much better than that. Thank you again Andrew! Also showed me that it isn't the car.

(null)

[Bruce Wilson]

I've had coaches all my time in racing. Whether it was the fastest guy that worked at the indoor karting track or my good friends in SM. No disrespect to anyone who does this as a career, I know they are worth their weight in gold. But I often get turned off with the magical insert any japanese word here approach. I know I might be just a big stupid redneck (but a fast one). I just want to know how I can start at the back or get knocked back to midpack or worse and go on to lead the race, when it's damn hard enough to win a race from 2nd place. Tell me what kind of magic makes that happen, and I'll bequeath to you my first born!!! Just don't use a japanese word to describe it. BTW, my house is full of Japanese decor and japanese is my son's major, so I have nothing against the people, just don't believe they have any better magic than we do...

[Bruce Wilson]

just realized that my firstborn IS my son... I'm so confused, can I get a hug?

[Bench Racer]

Just don't use a japanese word to describe it. BTW, my house is full of Japanese decor and japanese is my son's major, so I have nothing against the people, just don't believe they have any better magic than we do...

These words ^ always remind me of an Americam man of great manufacturing knowledge by the name of Edwrards Deming who started in the 50's teaching the japanese people to use statistical process/methods of manufacturing when he was at the time shunned in America.

[Cy Peake]

A fellow racer had David Murry helping him at Watkins Glen some years ago during an open track day. He was very friendly and I was impressed with his relaxed manner:

http://davidmurry.com/about-dmtd

How much (ballpark) does professional one on one coaching cost? I assume you need to factor in travel, lodging and food for the coach as well as the actual cost for his/her services.

[Elliott Skeer]

I've had coaches all my time in racing. Whether it was the fastest guy that worked at the indoor karting track or my good friends in SM. No disrespect to anyone who does this as a career, I know they are worth their weight in gold. But I often get turned off with the magical insert any japanese word here approach. I know I might be just a big stupid redneck (but a fast one). I just want to know how I can start at the back or get knocked back to midpack or worse and go on to lead the race, when it's damn hard enough to win a race from 2nd place. Tell me what kind of magic makes that happen, and I'll bequeath to you my first born!!! Just don't use a japanese word to describe it. BTW, my house is full of Japanese decor and japanese is my son's major, so I have nothing against the people, just don't believe they have any better magic than we do...

Ok so I'll throw a Finnish word out there... Sisu

[Bruce Wilson]

Ok so I'll throw a Finnish word out there... Sisu

Thats it! Now just tell me how to bottle that up so that I can draw upon it on demand and I'll be lapping everyone

[Elliott Skeer]

Thats it! Now just tell me how to bottle that up so that I can draw upon it on demand and I'll be lapping everyone

That skill can take many moons to master, young grasshopper.

[Bruce Wilson]

Yeah I knew it, sold another special word

[Qik Nip]

Thanks to all for their input. All the comments are helpful.
Alberto, up until that spin, I had always used heel-toe from 4th down to 3rd for Rd Atl T6. The video is the only time i thought i'd try leave it in fourth and just go faster around the corner. Since my first attempt at staying in 4th resulted in a spin, it was my only attempt. For all future laps, i went back to downshifting to 3rd.

I definately need more skidpad practice to get faster hands. And the car may be too loose.

Brendan

Brendan:
I usually advise my (non AX experienced) HPDE students to enter every autocross they can find and if there's a AX test and tune (where you'll get dozens of runs per day), be especially sure to go! Autocross rewards agressiveness first and smoothness second. This is the complete inverse of road racing. But the AX experience tends to speed up the hands and gives the driver many times the chances to practice car control skills (with limited risk of damage). Looking at your video, the car was telling you it was leaving you well before the spin. I could hear the tires saying it well before you moved your hands or got off the gas. I'd bet that after a few dozen bonzai AX runs, you'd find yourself with a much improved "ass-o-meter" to rely on versus the hair splitting of the data logger. Best of luck.
Rick

[Brandon]

Rick, you owe me a new monitor!
'ass-o-meter': an absolutely perfect description of honing yourself in attacking an AX course for all your worth!
Coffee - all over the keyboard & monitor. Thanks for the laugh.

And I couldn't agree more with the advice of doing what you recommend. Having come to road racing from an off/on 15-year AX infatuation I can attest to the "quick hands" mantra and learning to listen to the car talk to you. As you say, the crude, nearly binary in nature of said AoM is a much better tool when you're starting out in racing than trying to pick the nits of reviewing data.

Ditto (from Rick) to you Brendan and be sure to always have fun & be safe!
Brandon

[Brendan O]

Ok. I will try AX. For some reason driving around in 2nd gear in a parking lot rubs me the wrong way but several people have told me it will help so i will resign myself to giving it a shot.
Thanks for all the input - it is much appreciated.