115 replies to this topic

[Glenn]

As a new person, I struggle with this. I bought a car that had 2011 SCCA and NASA log books, had run lots of races etc and discovered (after removing the glove box for, weight reasons, that the blower was missing. The car was overweight so no real advantage, but that is such a simple thing. I have had 2 different people work on the car and no one has noticed anything out of compliance, but then again, I am not about tear the engine down, just to make sure - at least not until I am no longer in last place.

If the blower was removed to install the cage the argument could be made blabla, but when the entire system including heater core is gone then the line is not so fine any longer

[JRHille]

EXACTLY! At the NASA championships a car was found noncompilant that SHOULD have been found at a local level. The owner never knew the car was non-compliant as he did'nd build/modify it. Yes they should have known, but how many times has a TECH guy looked at YOUR heaterbox I bet NEVER, and its a SIMPLE tech item.

I should have read the rules and inspected the car for every little thing before the race, hell even when the car was purchased. I think I was 30 lbs overweight too :'(. Print a copy of the rules, keep it in your trailer, read it again and again. Would never blame it on the regional tech, but I wish they would've made up for my laziness and found it.

[Glenn]

I should have read the rules and inspected the car for every little thing before the race, hell even when the car was purchased. I think I was 30 lbs overweight too :'(. Print a copy of the rules, keep it in your trailer, read it again and again. Would never blame it on the regional tech, but I wish they would've made up for my laziness and found it.

NOT Picking on you Justin! Just a real good example for the masses of the need for LOCAL tech as well as at the BIG shows! The difference between you and the "other" kid posting on the site is YOU assumed responsibility for the infraction, conrats to you and your Dad for raising such a responsible young man!!!!!!

[Scott McKay]

Wow. DQ from nationals for the heater core missing? Harsh. Truthfully, I don't think that I have a heater core or a blower for that matter, either, and the passenger door is gutted. I'm 6'4" and 225 lbs and the car is always overweight, so that rule kind of baffles me. I can see if a guy lightens a car so that he can re-ballast the car somewhere else, that is a performance modification. For me, the ballast is in the fact that I like beer and pizza and other fattening substances.

[Glenn]

Wow. DQ from nationals for the heater core missing? Harsh. Truthfully, I don't think that I have a heater core or a blower for that matter, either, and the passenger door is gutted. I'm 6'4" and 225 lbs and the car is always overweight, so that rule kind of baffles me. I can see if a guy lightens a car so that he can re-ballast the car somewhere else, that is a performance modification. For me, the ballast is in the fact that I like beer and pizza and other fattening substances.

His Qualifying time was pulled, he raced and woulda-been-a-contenda! Point is READ THE RULES or pay someone like Mike to look over the car before a big show!

[latapx]

Not sure about NASA...but I do know that SCCA has stripped even contingency earnings from folks found to be on the wrong side of the rules...and that was for an autocrosser! IMHO, if the car was found illegal, this is a pretty good standard as no one knows for how long that season the car was illegal. From that point forward, congratulations, you now have a bulls eye on your back and had better be in compliance!

[Bench Racer]

Let us not forget this part of the previous post. "Minnor issues that don't meet the rules continue to be illegal".

can you define "minor issues"

I really don't believe you want me to go there.

I only remember one DQ at the Sprints in Sm and not sure I would call that infraction "minor"

Valve plunge cut missed gauge by a tho or two. Maybe the second was at the 2011 Runoffs for your antagonistic on track friend (not on track driving issues).

[Alex Bolanos]

So, what are the penalties for a professional miata shop with 6 rigs blah blah intentionally cheating up a car at a NASA event?

[Jim Drago]

The tech issue with the "antagonist" was minor IMO... The "minor" issue you refer to wasn't minor.

[john mueller]

So, what are the penalties for a professional miata shop with 6 rigs blah blah intentionally cheating up a car at a NASA event?

No different from the guy who just bought a car and never checked his found to be non-compliant part. I know, don't seem fair but that's how it works.

[Alex Bolanos]

No different from the guy who just bought a car and never checked his found to be non-compliant part. I know, don't seem fair but that's how it works.

You didn't answer my question though...

[john mueller]

You didn't answer my question though...

Dude, I'm daft... Please help me understand what you asked.

[High Chair]

Dude, I'm daft... Please help me understand what you asked.

Come on John! You know what he is asking. Is he going to walk the plank, get 50 lashings, or just get a public spanking on Specmiata.com. Damn it John, theres blood to be had!

[Alex Bolanos]

Dude, I'm daft... Please help me understand what you asked.

What's the penalty? 6 month suspension on license? 12 month? loss of points for the year?

The only "penalty" they got was the loss of the actual part and the qualifying time for one race. I'm more daft than you so I couldn't find the answer in the CCR.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

this should be one penalty watching this vidio

[High Chair]

this should be one penalty watching this vidio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CARmF5J4BA

Damn that video sucked all the way from down here in Argentina. Hay Charbs. If you ever come down here don't bring up the fact that the British kicked their ass out of the Falkland Islands; they seem to be a little sensitive about it. LOL

[Andrew Charbonneau]

your right i need too edit that one

[High Chair]

What's the penalty? 6 month suspension on license? 12 month? loss of points for the year?

The only "penalty" they got was the loss of the actual part and the qualifying time for one race. I'm more daft than you so I couldn't find the answer in the CCR.

Or a night spooning with Charbs after a night out on the town in Savanna. That will cure anybody..

[John Nesbitt]

Bottom line it was for the "tech" infraction. More to the point, the Sanctioning body did issue the penality and others are honoring that penality as well. Should we be issuing this type of penality for every infraction, pattern of behavior, or only for blatent willful infractions is a topic that will never see consencies! Im with the the Fla boys here, start picking some mid pack guys and do some of teh less invasive tech items and see what happens to the class . It will be better!

The long suspension etc. was for conduct on and off the track. See the Court of Appeals decision in the November 2011 Fastrack for details.

SCCA stewards normally assign penalties based on a set of guidelines for frequently-occurring situations. You can find a copy of the 2012 Guidelines here: http://driverinfo.johnnesbitt.com/

Note that the Guidelines draw a distinction between "simple" non-compliance and "cheating" (my word). For a simple non-compliance in qualifying, loss of times is the recommended penalty.

Remember that these are guidelines; stewards have the discretion to modify them according to circumstances.

I track penalties. For the past couple of years, 90% of all penalties Club-wide for infractions covered by the Guidelines followed the Guidelines. The remaining 10% was split evenly between more and less severe.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

me and jamie by the way jamie is the little guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M2Iq-aQfMc&feature=related