115 replies to this topic

[Panic Motorsports]

I am over spending and under performing

I think I just found my new sig line.........LOL!

[Rob Burgoon]

if you treat this as just a fun class and aren't looking to this as a professional class, which requires professional equipment, builds, and tuning, then you don't have a prayer of running at the front.

Not true in socal at least. I am a cheapskate, my chassis is anything but professionally built or tuned and I can run at the front. My engine is a Race Engineering engine though.

Other than that, just do your setup work, dyno to make sure your engine is working well, and don't be shy about showing up with good tires. If you can drive, that's really all it takes.

[Jamz14]

Hey Moose,

I do aspire to that, at least my son does. I know that I will reach my wrenching capability very soon for him though.

If the the major wrenching work for the tech is done by the individual car owner, driver, or mechanic, is there really a huge time requirement for the volunteer tech crew? Don't they just have to measure and ensure compliance? And if it is done on a schedule that is blind and happens for sure once a year, but only once a year for intrusive tech, is the time requirement huge? Is there a way to leverage the competitors themselves for some teching?

I think for amateur racing, it is up to each class to raise the bar or professionalism that is desired. Because SM is so well attended, this has happened more so than other classes I suspect. I think this is a good thing and speaks well of the competitors in the class. But this type of thing is a dynamic process and should be constantly evolving and improving.

Out of my own curiosity, is there an ECU testing device currently made?

[Jamz14]

Rob,

Agreed, but what I mean is that I would be willing to bet that the attention you give to your car is professional level attention. Not that you are necessarily a professional and make your money building and tuning these cars. I hope to run at the front someday too, and I think I can provide enough skill in the wrench to do it and I don't make my living doing it. But, I don't think you can run at the front by making the allowed performance mods, garaging the car between race weekends, not changing or caring about your setup, and be competitive. If so, Jim Daniels setup guide is completely anal and not required.

And as you pointed out, you have a pro built motor, take time to look after your setup, dyno your car, and invest in tires. This is the basis for professionalism. Not that you have to be a professional. And I am in no way trying to minimize the need for lots of driver skill and seat time. From everything I hear, the amount of seat time you put in is the real secret to your success and I respect that greatly. That is one of the primary reasons we came to this class, to provide seat time and build driver skill.

[Glenn]

Out of my own curiosity, is there an ECU testing device currently made?

Its called swap out the unit for a known stock unit! If I wanted to catch a computer cheet I would order wiring harnesses on the table at BIG events......just sayin........

[Jim Drago]

(I kinda think it's perceived by other classes that we already do get our way most of the time.)

What the "other" classes should understand and understand very clearly.. Less SM, there is NO club racing. The other classes should be pulling for SM as hard as we do. If we go away, in all likelihood, so does club racing on most levels. While it is not a popular opinion at times, my opinion is and always will be that WE SHOULD get more as we bring more than the rest.

[Jamz14]

But isn't the swap out a subjective test? Not saying it isn't a valid test, but subjective to the test driver that is testing the swapped unit? Wouldn't it be much easier to plug the ECU into a testing device and have a microprocessor do quick comparisions?

[Rob Burgoon]

From everything I hear, the amount of seat time you put in is the real secret to your success and I respect that greatly. That is one of the primary reasons we came to this class, to provide seat time and build driver skill.

Thanks, yeah 300+ hours in the miata certainly doesn't hurt.

"But, I don't think you can run at the front by making the allowed performance mods, garaging the car between race weekends, not changing or caring about your setup, and be competitive."

In socal, you can. I run the same setup everywhere. I typically spend my garage time making collision repairs and doing enduro prep and R&D. That's how all the SM guys find time to find more speed, they aren't distracted by enduros like I am

[Rob Burgoon]

What the "other" classes should understand and understand very clearly.. Less SM, there is NO club racing. The other classes should be pulling for SM as hard as we do. If we go away, in all likelihood, so does club racing on most levels. While it is not a popular opinion at times, my opinion is and always will be that WE SHOULD get more as we bring more than the rest.

I wonder if they are saying, "damn if only SM would go away so they could all build bug eyed sprites and race with me instead."

[LarryKing]

Jamz, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I race as a hobby, and for all intensive purposes the SCCA is hobby racing. If you want more tech then lobby your regional executive.

It won't be many more years before SM is the new bug-eyed Sprites.

[Jamz14]

Moose,

Fair enough! As a side note, not necessarily saying more tech is needed. Just saying that if everyone is concerned enough about cheating, tech is the answer.

J

[FTodaro]

I think the overall interest is that we KEEP SM a viable entry level class that keeps expanding. That is in all of our best interest. Who wants to race in a class with no competition and no challenge. I sure don't.

Something else I don't want to change is the fact that people take this hobby more or less serious than others, some spend lots of money, I am ok with that. Some put lots of time into it thinking about every detail that they can improve (that's me), Some can do both.

If we don't keep a certain level of tech at the events and enforcement, its just like the speed limit, if you don't see cops on the road you go a little faster. Its ok with me that people spend money on this class that does not take away from its entry level nature, the tech will keep it within some limit.

I think you do have to either work vary hard or spend money to be competitive. Work hard, with being all over the prep of your car, working with your data, spending the time to see what set up works the best, what line if the fastest. At least for me I have to work at it.

You are always going to get people who cut corners. a good tech session will cut that down.

We had a driver meeting at our first event and the question was asked should we tech only the top three or should we random tech all the way down the line. I was the only one i think that raised his hand and said do the random tech.

In the first two events, I have drawn the random tech honors, go figure.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

In socal, you can. I run the same setup everywhere. I typically spend my garage time making collision repairs and doing enduro prep and R&D.

I am not sure what the racing is like in SoCal, but in Texas that will not get you to the front. You cannot win here without a well setup car and an exceptional ability to wheel a car. I don't know anyone in the top 10 that runs the same setup from track to track. I include myself in that list... I have finished 8th the last several weekends, I am not the greatest driver, but I put a lot of work into making sure both the car and myself are prepared before the weekend starts.

[Rob Burgoon]

I am not sure what the racing is like in SoCal, but in Texas that will not get you to the front. You cannot win here without a well setup car and an exceptional ability to wheel a car. I don't know anyone in the top 10 that runs the same setup from track to track. I include myself in that list... I have finished 8th the last several weekends, I am not the greatest driver, but I put a lot of work into making sure both the car and myself are prepared before the weekend starts.

Might depend a bit on the tracks and level of competition in your region. Lime Rock comes to mind. Having a car that can turn right there is probably helpful.

I'm just not at a point where I feel like I can get worthwhile gains by going asymmetrical. OTOH, I cornerweighted for the first time only a year ago, so I'm still getting used to a car that's 50/50.

[plane]

The class can be both competitive and entry level. As with any large group racing there are 3 different groups. the real contenders to win, the guys who are always top 1/2 but will never win consistently and those of us at the back. The guys in the middle think they can win so they keep trying. the guys in the back are racing each other just as competively as you are racing at the front (just slower) and will keep showing up and bring new people in if the front runners share knowledge and make it fun off the track and don't intimidate on the track. I think the SM group does a pretty good job of this. I would only suggest that the top guys maybe spend a few minutes each weekend helping new people and older slow people with some set up tips and double checking cars for friendly speed and tech items. I know it is hard to run your own car and talk to nubes like us, but it is appreciated. Duncan was a great padock mate this weekend. Dean is great and Charlie Hayes is always very generous with his time. I think the nature of forums is always to focus on the things that bother us becasue it is human nature.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

The class can be both competitive and entry level. As with any large group racing there are 3 different groups. the real contenders to win, the guys who are always top 1/2 but will never win consistently and those of us at the back. The guys in the middle think they can win so they keep trying. the guys in the back are racing each other just as competively as you are racing at the front (just slower) and will keep showing up and bring new people in if the front runners share knowledge and make it fun off the track and don't intimidate on the track. I think the SM group does a pretty good job of this. I would only suggest that the top guys maybe spend a few minutes each weekend helping new people and older slow people with some set up tips and double checking cars for friendly speed and tech items. I know it is hard to run your own car and talk to nubes like us, but it is appreciated. Duncan was a great padock mate this weekend. Dean is great and Charlie Hayes is always very generous with his time. I think the nature of forums is always to focus on the things that bother us becasue it is human nature.

but it my call im justed bothered alot of inner demons how do you fix that

[Caveman-kwebb99]

but it my call im justed bothered alot of inner demons how do you fix that

Psych help...

[Mike Collins]

Runoffs 06 - 2 cars $14k
Runoffs 07- 1 car 10k
Took 8 off hated Topeka!
09 Went as SM Line Chief in Tech - $3500
Runoffs 10 - We went with 7 cars and did it all the way 86k all in for all of us
Runoffs 11 - 2 cars 17k (plus a motor and head work after to replace blown motor)

[Caveman-kwebb99]

The class can be both competitive and entry level. As with any large group racing there are 3 different groups. the real contenders to win, the guys who are always top 1/2 but will never win consistently and those of us at the back. The guys in the middle think they can win so they keep trying. the guys in the back are racing each other just as competively as you are racing at the front (just slower) and will keep showing up and bring new people in if the front runners share knowledge and make it fun off the track and don't intimidate on the track. I think the SM group does a pretty good job of this. I would only suggest that the top guys maybe spend a few minutes each weekend helping new people and older slow people with some set up tips and double checking cars for friendly speed and tech items. I know it is hard to run your own car and talk to nubes like us, but it is appreciated. Duncan was a great padock mate this weekend. Dean is great and Charlie Hayes is always very generous with his time. I think the nature of forums is always to focus on the things that bother us becasue it is human nature.

Plane, The most important thing is for newcomers not to be to afraid to ask... I have had help from Drago, Steyn, Cliff Brown, some probably Bad Advice from Charby. I have helped some that have asked, when they are asking the right questions. Spent lots of time helping my close SM friends in Ohio with setup, data, and wrenching when they have needed it. We all liek to see hungry new talent, and just hungry new fun lovers comign to the class! Yes we have to work on our cars at the races and concentrate on our races as well, but most are willing to help with advice or encouragment. thats what a great Class we have!!!!!!!!

[William Keeling]

Runoffs 06 - 2 cars $14k
Runoffs 07- 1 car 10k
Took 8 off hated Topeka!
09 Went as SM Line Chief in Tech - $3500
Runoffs 10 - We went with 7 cars and did it all the way 86k all in for all of us
Runoffs 11 - 2 cars 17k (plus a motor and head work after to replace blown motor)

I suck, I drop 2K to 3K a weekend and have never had enough points (most years 0) for an invite -- I guess I should have gone the year any fool could go