183 replies to this topic

[Glenn]

Mooser, you've obviously never been to a waterless boat figure eight. I guess technically the boats don't have tires.

It puts the tango in Whiskey Tango...

You missed Foxtrot.......

[LarryKing]

What local championship series does NASA have?

Mid Atlantic regional championship, awards by class.

Looks like 2012 Mid Atlantic NASA schedule consists of 4 VIR weekends and 4 Summit Point. You're traveling 50% of the season.

[Glenn]

Looks like 2012 Mid Atlantic NASA schedule consists of 4 VIR weekends and 4 Summit Point. You're traveling 50% of the season.

Moose this is an opinion driven post....please keep the facts out.......that is all.......

[jeopardyracing]

Looks like 2012 Mid Atlantic NASA schedule consists of 4 VIR weekends and 4 Summit Point. You're traveling 50% of the season.

I would travel yes, but THAT WASN'T THE POINT. Sorry to flame but this is so frustrating. FORGET ME AND WHAT I WANT INDIVIDUALLY. Those are mid Atlantic region tracks that work for MANY FOLKS IN THIS REGION, WHILE MANY OF THE TRACKS MARRS ADDED WILL DRIVE UP MANY PEOPLE'S COSTS. The point of the post was that MARRS has moved toward more rounds that are farther away for MANY folks in this region. That plus the Hoosiers = costs are higher this season FOR MANY OF US. That changes the character of the series

[Mike Collins]

I like the Toyo and I like the Hoosier. I'm not sure why you think the Toyo is less expensive to run?

If you want to compete for a championship you are going to start buying 1/32" Toyo's new every weekend AND you are going to have some old hard as rock Toyo's for those special tracks or special weather condiditons. Then you are going to have a custom set "camber shaved" rains, and an intermediate set and a rain set.....

I have less wheels mounted now that I use Hoosiers than I ever did on Toyo's. On Hoosiers, you have stickers, good tires and practice tires and that's it. The rains are amazing in the wet....

Rich, I did read your blog and I understand the cost implication your are refferencing, but I still don't get it. you could race all home races and one away weekend and be in the championship points in MARRS, we did not take that away... in fact if you won all the home races and just showed up at one away race you would probably win your class.

[jeopardyracing]

Moose this is an opinion driven post....please keep the facts out.......that is all.......

I'm out.

[Rob Burgoon]

Hardly cordial. Some of the folks are beating this guy like a Sunday morning hard on...

While I don't agree with his premise, I'm not going to personally attack him because of his views.

I was talking about Ron's comments not everyone's but yeah, he's takin a beatin from others.

[Glenn]

I would travel yes, but THAT WASN'T THE POINT. Sorry to flame but this is so frustrating. FORGET ME AND WHAT I WANT INDIVIDUALLY. Those are mid Atlantic region tracks that work for MANY FOLKS IN THIS REGION, WHILE MANY OF THE TRACKS MARRS ADDED WILL DRIVE UP MANY PEOPLE'S COSTS. The point of the post was that MARRS has moved toward more rounds that are farther away for MANY folks in this region. That plus the Hoosiers = costs are higher this season FOR MANY OF US. That changes the character of the series

If the point isnt tires/travel/crashing/repair cost/points championships, what is your point...MANY locals LIKED the idea of traveling and racing at new/different venues. Different strokes. Like Mike said, dont travel race well and win a championship. If you want to run RA1's race in SSM. If you want to change the program, run for office. Its really pretty simple!

[Yosh]

If I understand correctly, you are grousing about the cost of "away" races and the cost of tires. You are questioning why MARRS does this when it could stay closer to home to keep guys like you. And you want a tire rule of some sort to limit the availability of "fast" tires. And you don't think some of your drivers are very good and you don't feel safe getting on the grid.

Forgive me for reading some of your other posts, but if I read correctly, you built a SSM car last year (ground up) that was wrecked early this season on a practice day. You then bought a SM car while the SSM car is being repaired. You also do not own a tow vehicle or a trailer. (Well no wonder you don't like away races.)

I'd normally just quote Ricky Bobby here but you have to pay to play. How much is completely up to you. Keep in mind that the "away" MARRS races are simply races that other regions are hosting and are inviting MARRS to take part in. Good for the host region and good for MARRS.

I'm not you, but I'd be fixing that SSM car and running it into the ground at SP. Plenty of cheap seat time and competitive crowd. Be happy that you have a nice track with nice people so close to you.

Me, I like having the MARRS guys around. Makes me feel less like an alcoholic. There are plenty of us from up in the NE that try to come down to Summit at least once a year to return the favor.

[Mike Collins]

Yosh, are you trying to say that MARRS guys drink beer??

[MPR22]

Many of the posters here didn't actually read the full blog post. The entire intent of the post was SAYING what I was doing and explaining WHY: increasing my focus toward NASA and away from SCCA. So I already SAID what I was doing. In the blog I then go on to STATE that IF losing guys like me to a competitor like NASA WAS a concern to the SCCA, here were the causes. And the IF was intended to be perfectly open to the idea that the MARRS series may NOT want to target guys like me as their intended audience, which would be fine too. God knows plenty of posters here are inviting me not to let the door hit me in the rear. LOUD AND CLEAR.

As far as suggesting solutions, by obvious implication the inverse of the causes described in the blog would be prescriptions for attracting low buck guys like me back full time: Limit the number of 'out of region' events in MARRS each year (alternative suggested by a poster here: have a 'local' sub championship), either go back to RA-1s or implement a tire purchase limit to control tire purchase costs, overhaul the driver training / licensing procedures to reduce on-track incidents (which drive up costs and intimidate newbies), and rigorously enforce the sanctions for contact on track (also to reduce on track contact).

No disrespect, but please read the whole blog and the comments here before posting.

Ok Dipshit, I will take that as a complete sign of disrespect. You clearly don't have the inteligence to understand your own words.


This past weekend represented another weekend of Washingon, DC region SCCA racing that I elected not to attend in only my second year of racing. In fact, as with many of the Mid Atlantic Road Racing Series (“MARRS”) races this year, I didn’t even consider it. As I work toward returning to a more regular racing schedule after my April accident, I find myself consulting the NASA schedule of upcoming events much more than I look to the SCCA calendar. Why? Because the costs to participate in the MARRS series have risen so astronomically with this year’s rule changes that MARRS looks much more like a semi-pro national series than a grassroots, regional club series. Consider:

You clearly state you are not happy with the cost of MARRS and are considering other options ..ie racing NASA. Consulting the NASA race schedule does not mean you have abandoned the SCCA and thrown all your efforts to NASA. You did not specifically state you have not run or will not run any of the MARRS races in your opening paragraph or any subsequent paragraphs. The closest you come to that conclusion is in the following paragraph.

- This year 5 of the 13 MARRS races were at distance venues such as Charlotte, Nelson Ledges, etc. Considering everything that competes with car racing for my budget and time, I couldn’t even consider those rounds of the series. And with no hope of being competitive in the series, why not find a series that actually matches my resources? Increasingly, it’s not MARRS.

If I was to infer anything from that paragraph it would be that you are looking for a local series that matched your budget so you could compete for a championship. In the same paragraph you implied the only thing keeping you from competing for the MARRS championship is the distrance traveled to each of the 5 events out of your travel zone. A majority of your blog is dedicated to travel expenses.

Since you clearly have the talent and car to win as long as the following criteria is met:

No travel
Toyo RA-1s spec tire
Safer Environment

By all means find another organization to race with. It appears that NASA has at least 1 of the 3 criteria you require to be a champion. Toyo Spec Tires.

YOU chose to race SCCA last year. Based on your current criteria, was the SCCA your first option? Or did you race a year and decide the SCCA was not for you. Yes the NATIONAL tire changed, it did for everyone not just your little sorry ass. SCCA didn't make you race with their club. Neither the SCCA nor MARRS made you compete for the championship. They simply offered you a place to race under a set of rules you clearly don't like. Go race with NASA but don't try to run down the SCCA or MARRS series on your way out because you don't like the rules changes. Vote with you pocket book, that is clearly your greatest concern. Don't start the SCCA isn't as safe as NASA bullsheet either. You don't f'ing know your ass from a hole in the ground regarding racing. Both organization promote safe racing, they do it differently, which could be argued, no one way is better than the other for all competitors. Again vote with your pocket book.

If you chose run down NASA for the same self serving reasons I would respond similarly. You set yourself up to be a victim to draw attention to yourself, you have no interest in SCCA or MARRS taking your concerns seriously.

I politely suggested alternatives, you chose to respond like a douche. You are clearly a troll, go away.

[Keith Novak]

I don’t get the megabucks required to run Hoosiers argument. We opted regionally to allow both Hoosiers and Toyos this year. I’m still running RA1s and about to switch over. I buy 3/32 Toyos so I’m starting with a slower tire to begin with and it takes them a few sessions to reach their prime. They will last more than 10 sessions but around that time I’m questioning just when I’ll start seeing cords. I even have my own tire machine so I can flip and balance them regularly. 1/32 or 2/32 RA1s start faster but how many sessions do you get from them? I also plan things out so I can get that important 1st cycle in them where I can let them sit.

I’ve seen our fastest guys come in and say that their Hoosiers are done and I can see that they are slower, but it’s not like they’re seconds slower. I see some guys mid pack complain that they can’t afford the spendy tires but they’re several seconds off the pace already and maybe experiment with pressures but that’s it. A fresh set of tires won’t put them on the podium.

I spent last year chasing points in STL for no good reason, ended up double dipping and racing doubles every weekend finishing the season with 22 races and the most points . I got a whole shelf of plastic trophies, some nice checkered flags, and it was pretty fun but often just expensive and exhausting. This year I’m racing less, choosing ones closer to home when I can and focusing on fun. I get to hang out more. It’s less stressful, less expensive and I have a blast. Last weekend I was mid-pack in very close races with people within tenths or thousands of my times, and I have no idea what tires they were using. It didn’t matter and I didn’t care. If we all traded tires it probably wouldn’t have changed things and if it did we’d be having just as much fun racing someone 1 or 2 spots up or down the scoreboard.

[Rob Burgoon]

Ok Dipshit, I will take that as a complete sign of disrespect. Your clearly don't have the inteligence to understand your own words.

And away we go!

[Jim Boemler]

And away we go gone!

Minor correction, Rob. Keep it civil, people.

[Jim Boemler]

I get to hang out more. It’s less stressful, less expensive and I have a blast. Last weekend I was mid-pack in very close races with people within tenths or thousands of my times, and I have no idea what tires they were using. It didn’t matter and I didn’t care. If we all traded tires it probably wouldn’t have changed things and if it did we’d be having just as much fun racing someone 1 or 2 spots up or down the scoreboard.

Many of your local brethren realized this years ago, including many who are regularly at the front. A number of others have left the fold because those around them forgot or ignored the lesson.

[Bench Racer]

jeopardy, forget about everything that is wrong in your world, go to the track, improve your lap times & all will be good in your world.

Some of us need to play in a smaller world.

[MPR22]

jeopardy, forget about everything that is wrong in your world, go to the track, improve your lap times & all will be good in your world.

Some of us need to play in a smaller world.

Well said David

[Yosh]

Yosh, are you trying to say that MARRS guys drink beer??

Mike, I'm saying that I drink a lot of beer. Some of you guys drink more.

[edzeb]

Not suggesting or claiming the following is better, or worse.... The NYSRRC Series allowed all tyres, RA1s, 888s, Hoosiers, in the concept of keeping cost down in SSM. Want to spend money...then do so. Want to burn up old tyres....then do that too. The NYSRRC Series went from running many tracks in the past to just two this year (WGI and Nelson). Do I miss the tow to NHMS? No.... Do I miss racing against different drivers out of my 'area'? Yes...

Only other comment... SCCA is not 'THEM'. It is not 'THOSE OFFICIALS'. It is 'US'. Unlike other clubs/groups/sanctioning bodies, everyone in SCCA who has a member number has the same ability to make change. Blogs/posts/bench racing have little effect in the 'getting things changed' world. Getting involved, volunteering you time and money and expertise, run of office or get appointed. (Beating my usual drum), many of us who drive also are officials and officers for the club. Why? Someone has to do it and we actually step up to the plate and take on the work. Are we looking for a pat on the back? No. Just making it so all of us can race.

Want change? Make a full written proposal together; submit it to powers that be in area of interest. Don't get what you feel is right? Run for their job or work to get appointed. All of this takes work people.

Now back to your regular scheduled racing....

Ed...

[jeopardyracing]

Not suggesting or claiming the following is better, or worse.... The NYSRRC Series allowed all tyres, RA1s, 888s, Hoosiers, in the concept of keeping cost down in SSM. Want to spend money...then do so. Want to burn up old tyres....then do that too. The NYSRRC Series went from running many tracks in the past to just two this year (WGI and Nelson). Do I miss the tow to NHMS? No.... Do I miss racing against different drivers out of my 'area'? Yes...

Only other comment... SCCA is not 'THEM'. It is not 'THOSE OFFICIALS'. It is 'US'. Unlike other clubs/groups/sanctioning bodies, everyone in SCCA who has a member number has the same ability to make change. Blogs/posts/bench racing have little effect in the 'getting things changed' world. Getting involved, volunteering you time and money and expertise, run of office or get appointed. (Beating my usual drum), many of us who drive also are officials and officers for the club. Why? Someone has to do it and we actually step up to the plate and take on the work. Are we looking for a pat on the back? No. Just making it so all of us can race.

Want change? Make a full written proposal together; submit it to powers that be in area of interest. Don't get what you feel is right? Run for their job or work to get appointed. All of this takes work people.

Now back to your regular scheduled racing....

Ed...

Thanks for the note Ed and your points are well taken. The spirit of the post was really to draw attention to this perspective in our region and get a discussion going so that the region board would see that many of us share this perspective. Reps from my region thanked me for the feedback and passed it on, while PMing support in the background. But the point is very well taken that this is a club, not us versus them, and that everyone involved is a volunteer.

I should never have posted it here; my thinking upfront was that folks from my region would weigh in and start that public discussion I wanted so their voices could be heard. The actual result was very different - the in-region discussions happened offline via email and phone, because people obviously didn't want to become targets the way did. The worst part about it was that the blog's audience was intended to be our SCCA region and the topic was supposed to be about what is / is not best for the region and instead it devolved into a thread about what I 'should' do / write.

But again, thanks for the post and points well taken.