163 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

If that was High Chairs intent, then agreed. Respect will be shown as the pass is attempted.

[Todd Green]

Your video is necessary for that. (Tire lockup.....)

No it wasn't. You have more senses than sight. If you listen to Steve's vid you can hear him lockup before the contact. As others have stated, just seeing his speed and the fact that the pole sitter braked earlier than him, yet was on a more optimal line for corner entry, should have set off warning bells. You also seem to think that the outside car came down on him. You only have to leave a car width, which he did. It is the passer's responsibility to be able to make the pass cleanly on a tighter line.

No possible way I am going to instruct my driver to give the pole sitters the first corner. No way, hale no.

I disagree with you 110%. I qualify much better than I race. In fact not only should people not be able to pass me in the first turn, I think we should change the rules that they can't pass me in any turn (probably should throw in the straights while we're at it).

Ok, maybe I agree with you. Kinda silly to say that someone who qualified faster automatically gets the first turn. Racing is on as soon as the green drops. Doesn't mean you should dive-bomb etc., but I'm certainly not going to just "give" someone a turn. But perhaps that is the context the poster meant that you shouldn't be taking unnecessary risks in the first turn. (Edit: Looks like a bunch of people just said the same thing while I was typing this up.)

[DrDomm]

No it wasn't. You have more senses than sight. If you listen to Steve's vid you can hear him lockup before the contact. As others have stated, just seeing his speed and the fact that the pole sitter braked earlier than him, yet was on a more optimal line for corner entry, should have set off warning bells. You also seem to think that the outside car came down on him. You only have to leave a car width, which he did. It is the passer's responsibility to be able to make the pass cleanly on a tighter line.

You're a better video analyzer than me. On the 20th time I watched this, with the volume up high, I think you are right that I can hear lockup. But it's so much easier to hear now that I've seen the photos and watched the 2nd video. I still think his video makes it look like he was turned down on, and wasn't given room. The 2nd video proves that wasn't the case. So, I disagree with you 110%. Second video is necessary to justify the protest and confirm the fairness of the penalty (to those of us who weren't there)...yay! The system works.

[CruzanTom]

FYI, in case yall didn't notice same stuff happens WAY back in the middle of the pack too

I started 12th (Kill zone Bull's eye) and, if craziness was going to happen, I was happy that it happened far enough in front of me that I could avoid the mayhem. I was in the 82 car that passed Keith.

I have been caught up in too many wrecks during the first lap when mayhem occurred mid-pack and too close to avoid. I guess I need to qualify faster and get one of those free passes into T1.

[Glenn]

I started 12th (Kill zone Bull's eye)
I

Which was the reason I elected NOT to do the CCPS race on Saturday or Sunday. I was afeared that 70 plus red misted racecar drivers running in the dark "might" just not all make it thru turn 1. Surprize, they behaved!

[LarryKing]

get one of those free passes into T1.

I hope you brought enough for everyone!

[High Chair]

If that was High Chairs intent, then agreed. Respect will be shown as the pass is attempted.

I really don't care if you take my advice or not but I can tell you this. I have driven wheel to wheel with the best drivers in SM in both regional and National races and we always try to give the front row the corner if there is any doubt. Most of the front runners are happy if they can just make it through the first lap in the same position that they started. Of course that does not stop some jack ass from trying to take the lead from the 3rd row at the drop of the green. However those drivers usually do not make it past turn two either. If you are instructing your driver to race like that then you take full responsibility when your car comes back on a flat bed. Mike is certainly more of gentleman than most of us.

[Jamz14]

High Chair,

I think that you are not reading my post and intention correctly. I said to make the move if safe and doable without causing incident. I didn't say make it if there is doubt. If there is doubt then there is a safety issue and the advise to the driver would be to not make it. Give all the respect to the front row you want outside of this. Do so and we will take advantage if we can (still under the conditions of doing so safely). I would hardly call someone trying to do this a jackass and the car hasn't come back on the trailer yet because of it. A jackass is the guy that tries it when he shouldn't. So by your definition we should all consider Steve (the subject of the post) a jackass?

As a side note it doesn't usually work out this way though. Usually the guys on the front row are good enough to take the corner without any additional respect and leeway given to them. Usually it works out that we can take advantage as the front guys are ping ponging off of each other and the driver finds the hole. Another very nice talent our driver has and has been used effectively since his karting days.

Another side note to the moderators, why is the word h%ll not allowed and changed to hale ,and the word jackass is allowed?

[High Chair]

No I was not calling Steve a jack ass; I don't even know him. From previous posts you might see where I thought it was great that he took responsibility for what happened. The jack ass comment refers to the many drivers who dive bomb the starts and are clearly much slower than those they passed before the first turn. If I thought Steve was a jack ass I would have included his name. From all accounts Steve is fast and probably could of held that position if the wreck didn't happen. I am sure everybody on here has been dived bombed at the starts regardless of where they are starting. In fact many of us when we were just getting our feet wet in SM did the dive bombing. I am no exception nor is Drago, Von C, or the others. We just look at it a little different now.

[Jim Drago]

Usually the guys on the front row are good enough to take the corner without any additional respect and leeway given to them.

I don't think the guys on the front row are looking for any free pass.. They are just looking for a little common sense and a fair start. If the guys on the front row start by the rules they get passed into turn 1 EVERY time. All I would like to see if a good start by all and the rest usually sorts itself out. The best starts I have been a part of is when the pole sitter slows to pace car speed and slowly and smoothly rolls on the throttle, with all being WOT long before the green. That seems to be the most fair for all. If you are on the pole and maintain pace car speed and accelerate when you see the green, you will likely be 5th -10th entering turn 1. Whether we like it or not, that has become SOP ...
So most of us who lead fields from time to time have adopted this procedure. We usually inform P2 exactly of what we are going to do so both lines accelerate at the same rate and has worked well. Every time I see a pole sitter trying to do it by the book or trying to fake the field by accelerating stopping and then hitting brakes again, bad things happen.

Jim

[tburas56]

+1 Well said!

I don't think the guys on the front row are looking for any free pass.. They are just looking for a little common sense and a fair start. If the guys on the front row start by the rules they get passed into turn 1 EVERY time. All I would like to see if a good start by all and the rest usually sorts itself out. The best starts I have been a part of is when the pole sitter slows to pace car speed and slowly and smoothly rolls on the throttle, with all being WOT long before the green. That seems to be the most fair for all. If you are on the pole and maintain pace car speed and accelerate when you see the green, you will likely be 5th -10th entering turn 1. Whether we like it or not, that has become SOP ...
So most of us who lead fields from time to time have adopted this procedure. We usually inform P2 exactly of what we are going to do so both lines accelerate at the same rate and has worked well. Every time I see a pole sitter trying to do it by the book or trying to fake the field by accelerating stopping and then hitting brakes again, bad things happen.

Jim

[Rob Burgoon]

I don't think the guys on the front row are looking for any free pass.. They are just looking for a little common sense and a fair start. If the guys on the front row start by the rules they get passed into turn 1 EVERY time. All I would like to see if a good start by all and the rest usually sorts itself out. The best starts I have been a part of is when the pole sitter slows to pace car speed and slowly and smoothly rolls on the throttle, with all being WOT long before the green. That seems to be the most fair for all. If you are on the pole and maintain pace car speed and accelerate when you see the green, you will likely be 5th -10th entering turn 1. Whether we like it or not, that has become SOP ...
So most of us who lead fields from time to time have adopted this procedure. We usually inform P2 exactly of what we are going to do so both lines accelerate at the same rate and has worked well. Every time I see a pole sitter trying to do it by the book or trying to fake the field by accelerating stopping and then hitting brakes again, bad things happen.

Jim

Still not legal. If the guys behind don't cheat, your reaction time is good, and there is no draft, you'll stay in first.

[Jim Drago]

Still not legal. If the guys behind don't cheat, your reaction time is good, and there is no draft, you'll stay in first.

Rob
I am going to let you fight this fight... I don't get to race enough as it is, I don't want to spend the little time I get losing my front row starting position, losing a potential win and then spend the rest of the weekend in the Stewards office protesting people etc.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

burgergoon, if i was running the DE I would promote you to the fastes run group since you know all the rules... its called racing, and its amatuer racing here, everyone wants to be first by the first corner. only way you can do that if you got the pole is roll on the power into the green flag, if not you aint got a prayer of being first inot the corner, and if not you then someone will have smashed up car. I am not half the racer as drago and I know this. pull your head out grab a bannana and take a dep breath, post up some vid of some supposed cheater that you race against all will be well inthe world again.. You and communist clown must have some kind of racing cult out there on the liberal coast.

[Rob Burgoon]

So change the rules.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I bet you follow all the rules on the interstate dont you? I bet you never speed, or roll through a stop sign, always use your blinker before change lanes, get a grip dude. the rules dont change... Sammy Hagar sang it best I cant drive 55! One of my favorite rebels, even from the wrong coast...

[Caveman-kwebb99]

The written rules and what is enforced are often not the same, if you go 78 in a 65 mph area in Ohio you are likely never to get stopped or get a ticket, but go 81 in a 65 and you are hosed... you can even change lanes right in front of a cop without a blinker and he wont ticket you although its against the law. in ohio we can havbe darker tint on the windows and 99% of the time no cop will ever ticket you for it. Just drawing some parallels for you. If you are a racer you figure out fast how the race dirrectors interpret rules, from bump drafting, to starting, to contact, etc.

[Michael Novak]

I have nothing to add EXCEPT. I hate ohio! I hate driving through ohio to get to decent state. Slowest driving state besides Florida!

I do like midO.

[Jim Drago]

Rob is correct... Just doesnt ever seem to work

[DrDomm]

You guys at the front think the starts are unfair. Those of us in the middle think they're unfair. I doubt those starting 30th think that's fair. Maybe they aren't supposed to be fair.