163 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

I think the starts are fair. If everybody really thinks they aren't fair, could always move to standing starts.

[FTodaro]

Still not legal. If the guys behind don't cheat, your reaction time is good, and there is no draft, you'll stay in first.

the guys behind the pole sitter who go to WOT before the green flag drop are not cheating unless they improve there position before the green flag drops So If the Pole sitter is doing 40mph and the cars behind time it right, and they normally do when the green does fly they have 5mph on the guys who are waiting for the green to fly.

I have not started that many races but the ones I have I roll on the gas as I am approaching and anticipating the flag.

Now all I have to do is master the the 2/3 up shift without missing it.

[Keith Novak]

the guys behind the pole sitter who go to WOT before the green flag drop are not cheating unless they improve there position before the green flag drops So If the Pole sitter is doing 40mph and the cars behind time it right, and they normally do when the green does fly they have 5mph on the guys who are waiting for the green to fly.

On the flip side, I got rammed VERY hard when someone behind me tried to anticipate the flag too early and was WOT when the rows in front checked up because the flag didn't come out.

[Todd Green]

the guys behind the pole sitter who go to WOT before the green flag drop are not cheating unless they improve there position before the green flag drops

SCCA Rules:

G. The Starter will start the race by suddenly and continuously waving
the green flag until all cars have passed the start line if the field is:
1. at a constant slow speed;

NASA Rules:

Once the pace car leaves the track,
the lead car will be responsible for pacing the field slowly, and at a steady pace, until the
green flag is shown. [Note: Pace means “steady speed.” Acceleration (or deceleration)
after the pace car leaves the track, but before the green flag is displayed, is illegal.]

What part of constant/steady and that accel/decel is illegal doesn't register with you? It sure as h3ll is cheating. But as Drago says everyone does it and you only have to get smoked on pole once to know that you'll be rolling the start since it appears that the officials don't care (at least in every race I've ever been in.)

[MPR22]

Unwritten rules are often the best. Anything that promotes less contact on lap one is a good thing in my book.

Fair and by the rules often leads to carnage, as 20-60 cars try to anticipate when the green flag will fly.

I don't mind one bit that I don't get a chance to make that hero pass when the front row accellerates before the flag flies, at least I get through turns 1,2.... in a reasonablly orderly fashion.

Before you start telling me I'm a cheater, tell me when I have sat on pole? I am usually the guy that would benifit most from an agressive anticipation of the start, but as they say you can't win a race on lap one but you sure can lose one.

[Rob Burgoon]

Unwritten rules are often the best.

B.S. change the rule.

[Rob Burgoon]

By the by, I wrote a letter on this topic back in May, and apparently the CRB elected to sit on it rather than address it.

Just like a congressional subcommittee!

[Rob Burgoon]

I think the starts are fair. If everybody really thinks they aren't fair, could always move to standing starts.

All the 1.6 miatas will simultaneously blow their diffs when the green drops.

[MPR22]

"Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive"

William F. Buckley Jr.

Spec racing in a nutshell.

[Rob Burgoon]

"Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive"

William F. Buckley Jr.

Spec racing in a nutshell.

How hard is this? If allowing the pole to start the race is a good idea, change the rule to "race is started by the pole accelerating on the S/F straight or the green flag, whichever comes first"

[Caveman-kwebb99]

_{The rules work just fine now... I dont car enough to write letters to change a rule that dont seem to matter. If I only had a nickle for everyone that thought they were gonna change the world...}

[Bench Racer]

By the by, I wrote a letter on this topic back in May, and apparently the CRB elected to sit on it rather than address it.

Thank You For Your Input.

[Jamz14]

Rob,

Why would the diffs drop on the 1.6?

[MPR22]

Rob,
I am all for changing the rules if they are enforcable or do not create a saftey issue. One of the main issues would be with large fields with limited fields of vision from the front to the back. The starter (guy with the green flag) should be able to see if everyone is on the straight and in line. If that becomes the responsibility of the pole sitter he/she might just go as soon as they hit the front straight. That would be a huge advantage. As the rules are written the starter can choose to throw the flag or waive off the start if the pole car goes too soon or creates an accordian effect with starts and stops.

[Bench Racer]

As the rules are written the starter can choose to throw the flag or waive off the start if the pole car goes too soon or creates an accordian effect with starts and stops.

Not critical of the comment ^, have never viewed a waive off by the green flag waiver in the SCCA CenDiv.

[MPR22]

We have several a year. Usually the larger the field the more likely the waive off, especially at MSRH, the S/F straight is very short and has two sharp turns at either end.

[Rob Burgoon]

Thank You For Your Input.

Didn't even get that.

Rob,

Why would the diffs drop on the 1.6?

1.6 diffs will break if you look at them funny. Gears are a little too small I think. That's why the 1.6 cars are allowed to use the 1.8 torsens these days.

If that becomes the responsibility of the pole sitter he/she might just go as soon as they hit the front straight. That would be a huge advantage.

How is that different from what the pole sitting start cheaters are currently doing today? There seems to be a lot of favor for ignoring the rules on the books and protecting the pole sitter from those with non-geriatric reflexes.

All I want is everyone on the same page. It's just like with the terrible engine rules we had. "Overhaul that increases hp not allowed" yeah, right. Unwritten rules don't make things better, they make things messy.

We should pick what sort of start we want for our class and/or SCCA, then tighten up the rules around it.

[MPR22]

Rob,

I doubt any pole position in an SM national race has geriatric reflexes. If you truly believe that then what does that say about your reflexes, less than geriatric since you didn't qualify P1. The current rules work, the SCCA has a starter, if he/she doesn't like the start you get no green flag. Rules are in place, if the SCCA official chooses not to enforce them then protest the start. You already love to call people out for bad driving, why not bad officiating. It's curious how you are consistently complaining about the drivers around you but you don't seem to have the skill to drive off from them. A truly exceptional driver, one who makes no mistakes, should be able to set the pole then drive away from the field, therefore unburdening themselves from the horrors of racing with the scrubs. BTW I'm a scrub.

[Rob Burgoon]

Rob,

I doubt any pole position in an SM national race has geriatric reflexes. If you truly believe that then what does that say about your reflexes, less than geriatric since you didn't qualify P1. The current rules work, the SCCA has a starter, if he/she doesn't like the start you get no green flag. Rules are in place, if the SCCA official chooses not to enforce them then protest the start. You already love to call people out for bad driving, why not bad officiating. It's curious how you are consistently complaining about the drivers around you but you don't seem to have the skill to drive off from them. A truly exceptional driver, one who makes no mistakes, should be able to set the pole then drive away from the field, therefore unburdening themselves from the horrors of racing with the scrubs. BTW I'm a scrub.

It's possible to turn quick laps with slow reflexes. You can't react as quickly to a green with slow reflexes. Fast reflexes does not a fast driver make.

The most recent video I posted of others' bad driving was a result of being around slower drivers that had (illegally) pulled their plates for STL.

[MPR22]

Sounds like you want to go drag racing, there you can overhaul that Miata engine for performance gains and show off your cat like reflexes on starts. Problem solved, heck we didn't have to change the rules to make you happy, we just had to find you the right run group.😃